EU - in or out?

[observer]

Listen matey, you'll have to live a lot longer before you can match my T-shirts, so I'd forget that stupid tack. It might help (assuming you had the intention and knowledge); if you made the case for remaining in the EU; then posters may be able to have a rational, grown up discussion.

[asperity]

My point PJ is that you're avoiding discussing the issues, preferring instead to make sneering remarks from the sidelines. Calling people derogatory names, even if you lack the imagination to make those names up yourself, does not add to the discussion. All you seem to have to offer are appeals to authority.

[observer]

Watched the "EU debate" on BBC tonight; with an audience of 18 -30 year olds. A lot of the questions were about "what will happen", and the problem is, no one really knows, it's just speculation from both camps, so these youngsters are probably none the wiser.. But there are things we do know: the EU is undemocratic - with un-elected commissioners; it's corrupt - with it's books not being signed off by auditors for over a decade; it's wastefull - with the nonsense of the EU Parliament's regular moves to Strasbourg and back to Brussels; and it's incompetent - proving incapable of applying agreed policies like the Dublin Convention on Migrants, and allowing an invasion of the EU by over a million migrants. Be interested in how many of the audience will actually vote or are even registered to vote.

[Milky]

I am going away for a few days and today I bought some Euros, the Pound is up in value against the Euro on last week and is about average what it has been in recent years. I note that the stock market is also fairly buoyant the few stocks I hold are considerably up in recent months having suffered in the past year or two.

 

with the referendum looming it seems that the major players in the financial markets are also not listening to the the Bank of England, the institute of fiscal studies, the IMF, the institute of Directors, the Treasury etc etc etc.

[P J]

Listen matey, you'll have to live a lot longer before you can match my T-shirts, so I'd forget that stupid tack. It might help (assuming you had the intention and knowledge); if you made the case for remaining in the EU; then posters may be able to have a rational, grown up discussion.

 

So where do you go to work and how do you know where I go and what I see?

[P J]

My point PJ is that you're avoiding discussing the issues, preferring instead to make sneering remarks from the sidelines. Calling people derogatory names, even if you lack the imagination to make those names up yourself, does not add to the discussion. All you seem to have to offer are appeals to authority.

this from the man posting silly pics of politicians ??  Love the hypocrisy 

[Freeborn John]

this from the man posting silly pics of politicians ??  Love the hypocrisy 

Far from being silly, I thought the picture was thought provoking, and more relevant to the discussion than anything you've ever come up with by a factor of ten.

[P J]

possibly because of your bias you see things this way. Whether it provoked thought is irrelevant to my post,  please try to read a little more carefully.

[P J]

John, you like memes  try this

 

[P J]

Does this image provoke any thoughts? ????

 

[observer]

Hey PJ, I've absolutely no interest whatsoever about you personally, merely your comments. But as you seldom offer a rational argument, it's difficult to take you seriously.  Now if you've got any points in favour of REMAIN, state them and the rest of us can try knocking them down, one by one. EG: Try the latest from the Treasury (it must be right, after all it's "the Treasury"!), all private pension schemes are going to take a hit if we Brexit !  Perhaps  they could explain that one to the Port Talbot steel workers or BHS staff !! 

[Davy51]

The warnings are getting so dire i am frightened to leave the house.

[P J]

Hey PJ, I've absolutely no interest whatsoever about you personally, merely your comments. 

 

Yet you speculate and make assumptions regarding my life.  So come on, what is this amazing job you do that gets you out and about more than my job does?  Where have you been to with work this year?

[P J]

 Now if you've got any points in favour of REMAIN, state them and the rest of us can try knocking them down, one by one. EG: Try the latest from the Treasury (it must be right, after all it's "the Treasury"!), all private pension schemes are going to take a hit if we Brexit !  Perhaps  they could explain that one to the Port Talbot steel workers or BHS staff !! 

If you can come up with a good enough reason for me to bother giving you something to rant about I will but no matter what I say you won't change your narrow mind.  At least this way I can wind up the bigots and thats fun.  

 

 

p.s.  no point trying to sway voters either way as I have heard that the Labour party and some Asians have fixed the vote in favour of remain.  Some think its the ramblings of an idiot, what say you Observer?

[P J]

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/may/26/defeat-bigotry-engage-young-people-eu-zac-goldsmith?CMP=twt_gu

[Antisthenes]

Short of appointing Aston Villa's board to run the country, I think we will be just fine outside of the EU. Being a member hasn't saved us from anything and it's taken 35 years to reduce roaming charges - that's the lollipop that Eddie Izzard offered young voters on the BBC recently, along with cheap flights (to locations about an hour from where you want to go).

The purpose of the EU is ever closer union, harmonised economies and the adoption of the Euro. Mr Cameron claims to have won an exemption on all those things, so why should we want to stay in something that we're not quite in? Migration is an issue already as it is not possible to budget or plan accurately as a government, council or institution, but I foresee migration on a very different scale making its mark before the end of the decade.

Leaving doesn't mean evicting Europeans or falling out with each other. Many are very well settled in the UK. Leaving means retaining sovereignty and being able to vote out law-makers. Let's try it.

[observer]

Well a bit of plaglarism  from the Guardian , is better than nothing I suppose; and believe it or not, I have some respect for Owen Jones. But where he and the luvvie left go wrong, is the idea that the EU is reformable, that the UK can have any fundamental influence in the corridors of power in Brussels. The simple truth is, that in a collection of 28 self interests, the richer net donors to the EU are out-voted, and will continue to be out-voted, as the net receivers won't be voting for change. Add to this an un-elected commission, with a clear ideological agenda, and the myth of us influencing policy is self evident.   Still, he may be right about the demographic splits (young v old), but somehow I'm not sure this will be enough. I recall Thatcher's last election win, when "shy Tories" were coming out of the voting booths with their heads hung in shame; I somehow feel we'll have "shy REMAIN" voters doing the same in the referendum.

[Freeborn John]

Does this image provoke any thoughts?

 

This is a puzzling one, somebody (operation Black Vote, actually) seems to be trying to introduce an ethnic angle to the referendum on UK membership of the EU.

Why on earth would anyone do that?

[P J]

This is a puzzling one, somebody (operation Black Vote, actually) seems to be trying to introduce an ethnic angle to the referendum on UK membership of the EU.

Why on earth would anyone do that?

 

perhaps you are right and it should be left to Britain First, the EDL and UKIP.  I think its designed to show that all votes count equally. Why do you think the poster is introducing an ethnic angle?

[P J]

Well a bit of plaglarism  from the Guardian , is better than nothing I suppose; and believe it or not, I have some respect for Owen Jones. But where he and the luvvie left go wrong, is the idea that the EU is reformable, that the UK can have any fundamental influence in the corridors of power in Brussels. The simple truth is, that in a collection of 28 self interests, the richer net donors to the EU are out-voted, and will continue to be out-voted, as the net receivers won't be voting for change. Add to this an un-elected commission, with a clear ideological agenda, and the myth of us influencing policy is self evident.   Still, he may be right about the demographic splits (young v old), but somehow I'm not sure this will be enough. I recall Thatcher's last election win, when "shy Tories" were coming out of the voting booths with their heads hung in shame; I somehow feel we'll have "shy REMAIN" voters doing the same in the referendum.

but isn't the vote already rigged?  Unless someone was making stuff up.

 

Posting a link to a news item is not plagiarism is it? Only an idiot would claim that to be the case.

[Freeborn John]

perhaps you are right and it should be left to Britain First, the EDL and UKIP.  I think its designed to show that all votes count equally. Why do you think the poster is introducing an ethnic angle?

If you mean what makes me think the image features an ethnic angle, only an extraordinarily insensitive person could miss the crude stereotype of a skinhead threatening an elderly ethnic lady.

If you mean what is the purpose of introducing the ethnic angle into the poster, as I said before, why on earth would anyone foster a racial aspect to a referendum on EU membership?

[P J]

But there is no suggestion in the poster as to which way to vote, only that everyone's vote is equal. Many ethnic people aren't registered to vote. You said that it introduces an ethnic and racial element to the referendum debate. It could just as easily be claimed that the poster is introducing sexism into the referendum as I see a man and a woman.

As for why would anyone wish to foster a racial aspect in the EU referendum, perhaps Observer would be better qualified to answer that.

[observer]

CH 4 has just disclosed a massive act of alleged illegal electoral fraud by a political party; all the other parties keep a deathly silence, while the police investigate - and you still trust these people, oh the naivity !         Plagiarism is what it was called before air heads starting using google to supplement their lack of knowledge ! 

[P J]

CH 4 has just disclosed a massive act of alleged illegal electoral fraud by a political party; all the other parties keep a deathly silence, while the police investigate - and you still trust these people, oh the naivity !         Plagiarism is what it was called before air heads starting using google to supplement their lack of knowledge ! 

 

would you like me to google the meaning of plagiarism for you, may stop you sounding like a complete fool.

 

Where were you working today by the way?  Get out and see much?

[observer]

I suppose sounding like one is better than being one ! I was travelling the world before you were even thought of, so try growing up.