EU - in or out?

[observer]

What I meant Asp; is that economic success in the UK is not exactly a "boom"; but is better than other EU countries. Most economists predict low growth globally for some time to come, some even predict another crash or recession; this regardless of whether we're in or out of the EU. As I've said in other posts, imo we're in a better position to protect ourselves against economic and social turmoil by having control of our own Country than by being a toady to the Brussels dictatorship.  

[Bazj]

Maybe we need to be in the EU to ensure that we can continue to help countries like Latvia with our billions of contributions in case there is another crash.... maybe, as America is seen as the worlds Policeman, we are seen as the European bankroll....

[Freeborn John]

I wonder how many countries worldwide are currently dotting the I's and crossing the T's on fresh new trade proposals which they'll present to the UK on the day of a Brexit?

A Britain free of strangling EU legislation, protectionism and restrictive practices would not be the international outcast that the Project Fear people are predicting.      

[Milky]

I watched Christine Lagarde being interviewed on TV the other day about the doom of the UK if they exit the EU according to her crystal ball

 

Now if all these Monterey experts such as Mark Carney, Ms Lagarde are to be believed then should they not be capable of sorting out the economic mess that is blighting Europe at present, these people are not capable of doing that, yet we are to believe them when they predict t he future.

[Davy51]

I am sure the £350 million per week that would not be going to the EU would soon put the NHS back on an even keel.

[asperity]

http://newsthump.com/2016/05/20/trexit-could-mean-intergalactic-war-warn-klingons/

[observer]

    No mention of all those inter-galatic migrants heading for Earth !       .. and the latest regurgitation from Osborne, is the old "house prices will slump" nonsense. As house inflation is based on supply and demand, and currently demand exceeds supply, prices will continue to rise. However, just assuming George was correct, all those youngsters, who will probably be voting to REMAIN; may think twice, as lower house prices may finally get them a rung on the ladder !

[asperity]

Obs don't expect logic to get in the way of the remain propoganda.

[Davy51]

Funnily enough, or not , Mrs Davy & myself were in Lanzarote a couple of weeks which is part of Spain. There is no discernible economy apart from tourism & the resorts ,from what we saw ,were not busy. Amazingly enough though the infrastructure is top class with dual carriageways, motorways & bypasses & one way systems & all the roads are in top class condition ,great surfaces & clear road markings & signs.

The Beatles would have been hard pushed to write about potholes in Lanzarote.

[Bazj]

Funnily enough, or not , Mrs Davy & myself were in Lanzarote a couple of weeks which is part of Spain. There is no discernible economy apart from tourism & the resorts ,from what we saw ,were not busy. Amazingly enough though the infrastructure is top class with dual carriageways, motorways & bypasses & one way systems & all the roads are in top class condition ,great surfaces & clear road markings & signs.

The Beatles would have been hard pushed to write about potholes in Lanzarote.

 

and therein lies the problem... because we are net contributors, we pay for the motorways and dual carriageways in most of the takers countries... Having recently driven through France, Belgium, Holland and Germany, it is amazing how many big signs you see next to building projects or shiny new structures that have huge signs proclaiming how they were funded or part funded by money from the EU

 

I heard on the radio last week that only 1.6% of projects in the UK were carried out by other EU companies (Predominantly France of Germany) which doesn't sound a lot, however as a major contributor to the EU you would expect us to get a bit more work in Europe seeing as we have world class building firms......errr no. we get no more than 0.3% of building projects in all of the other 26 member states.... we just have the privilege of paying for them

[observer]

Having listened carefully to EU bureaucrats, when they appear on TV; it seems the aim is to level up all States within the EU, to provide a common standard of living throughout a United States of Europe. This means that the richer countries will continue paying for the poorer states, at the expense of their domestic infrastructure and public service requirements. This will be further exacerbated when even more backward States from the Balkans and Turkey are invited to the trough. With lower standards of living and pay rates, it's a no brainer to predict an increase in migration from these countries to the richer North; increasing ever more the demand for school places, housing and other social services. The myth, that these migrants will be paying taxes to support their use of public services, is clearly just a myth, when the majority will be taking on menial jobs that receive tax credits; but still better paid than their home countries. Of course, business will welcome all this cheap labour, hence their support for the EU. Evidently, it's not just EU migrants coming to Britain; aside from Africans and Asians heading "for a better life"; criminal gangs from Albania are now the norm, with migrant offenders contributing to 30% of our prison population, yet another drain on our resources. Sadly for future generations, this exodus will not decrease, as natural disasters etc will continue to displace people and they'll be heading for Europe. The EU has proved totally incapable of defending it's borders and controlling immigration; which, as the ex-head of MI6 has said, will lead to social chaos. So those voting to REMAIN, are making their bed, and will have to lie in it.

[Freeborn John]

Funnily enough, or not , Mrs Davy & myself were in Lanzarote a couple of weeks which is part of Spain. There is no discernible economy apart from tourism & the resorts ,from what we saw ,were not busy. Amazingly enough though the infrastructure is top class with dual carriageways, motorways & bypasses & one way systems & all the roads are in top class condition ,great surfaces & clear road markings & signs.

The Beatles would have been hard pushed to write about potholes in Lanzarote.

I remember a TV series that Jeremy Clarkson did years ago, 'Meet the neighbours' or some such, in his trip to Spain the opinionated one pointed out that the country had indulged in a national road building and infrastructure project which was financed by the EU, with the result that Spain was taking out the same amount of cash from the EU that Britain was putting in.

The programme included a scene with Clarkson sitting at a Spanish toll booth in an E Type and refusing to pay, explaining that as a Briton he'd already paid once, and the show ended with him being chased by a crowd of local fishermen after he'd pinched a box of British fish back.  

[Davy51]

There was a programme on tv a couple of years ago about the plight of the Spanish economy ,soaring unemployment, homelessness & food banks & it also showed the alarming speed with which the British ex pat dream can turn to dust. Over there it is either pay your mortgage or get turfed out on the street along with the relatives who have guaranteed your loan.

 

To provide some employment our Hispanic chums are building fully functioning ghost towns & destined to be empty shopping centres knowing the buildings will never be occupied. Chinese immigrants with a few bob in the bank were also being offered instant citizenship in return for inward investment.

 

At least with our builders not being offered much work on EU projects there will be plenty of labour to build house for immigrants, or maybe the immigrants could go to Spain to fill the empty urbanisaciones.

[Davy51]

    No mention of all those inter-galatic migrants heading for Earth !       .. and the latest regurgitation from Osborne, is the old "house prices will slump" nonsense. As house inflation is based on supply and demand, and currently demand exceeds supply, prices will continue to rise. However, just assuming George was correct, all those youngsters, who will probably be voting to REMAIN; may think twice, as lower house prices may finally get them a rung on the ladder !

 

Surely house prices will rocket with 77 million Turks looking for a foot on the ladder ?

[observer]

Not quite Dave; most can't afford to buy, so will try for a Council House. Failing that, it's multi-occupancy renting or the streets. The only folk benefiting from house price inflation are the rich, like the Oligarchs buying up London properties as an investment, only to leave them empty.

[Davy51]

Apparently, Britain is in a minority when it comes to house buying as the European norm is to rent.

[Davy51]

Having listened carefully to EU bureaucrats, when they appear on TV; it seems the aim is to level up all States within the EU, to provide a common standard of living throughout a United States of Europe. This means that the richer countries will continue paying for the poorer states, at the expense of their domestic infrastructure and public service requirements. This will be further exacerbated when even more backward States from the Balkans and Turkey are invited to the trough. With lower standards of living and pay rates, it's a no brainer to predict an increase in migration from these countries to the richer North; increasing ever more the demand for school places, housing and other social services. The myth, that these migrants will be paying taxes to support their use of public services, is clearly just a myth, when the majority will be taking on menial jobs that receive tax credits; but still better paid than their home countries. Of course, business will welcome all this cheap labour, hence their support for the EU. Evidently, it's not just EU migrants coming to Britain; aside from Africans and Asians heading "for a better life"; criminal gangs from Albania are now the norm, with migrant offenders contributing to 30% of our prison population, yet another drain on our resources. Sadly for future generations, this exodus will not decrease, as natural disasters etc will continue to displace people and they'll be heading for Europe. The EU has proved totally incapable of defending it's borders and controlling immigration; which, as the ex-head of MI6 has said, will lead to social chaos. So those voting to REMAIN, are making their bed, and will have to lie in it.

 

 

So it seems we are being urged by our bastions of capitalism, Cameron & Osborne , to vote to stay in a Socialist state unless a lurch to the right is very much in the offing. These substandard east European states are no strangers to totalitarianism & the final outcome between that & communism is paper thin.

[observer]

Seems the PM is making things up as he goes along. First he tells us that the UK would have a veto over Turkey joining the EU, then in the next breath, says it "will take decades" before Turkey joins. Well we've had "vetoes" before on other areas of policy, which have been swept away by Treaty changes; and who's to say we wont get a Lab-Lib luvvies Gov inside 20 years, prepared to let the world into the EU? A recent poll in Turkey, found a 16% desire to move to the UK, mostly students and the unemployed, which equates to 12 million migrants; but even if it were only 10% of that figure, thats over a million Turks arriving, all wanting housing, NHS treatment, school places etc; add to this the Balkan aspirants and little old UK would be a little over-crowded, it's already the most densely populated Country in Europe. The UK lifeboat is full, and more migrants, from the EU or elsewhere, will ensure it capsizes.

[P J]

Project fear at its finest , oh the hypocrisy

[observer]

Wow, that was a profound offering, with loads of argument and content - I think not - no surprise there then !     Even more clueless than the NHS Boss, who claims the NHS will collapse if we Brexit; all those Bulgarian Doctors going home to eight times less money, cos they think they'll have visa problems. Seems he was born after we joined the EU, when work permit visas were issued by a UK Government to any professional workers that we required.    The REMAIN camp certainly believe the public are thicker than they are. 

[P J]

Project fear at its finest, oh the hypocrisy 

[Freeborn John]

Project hypocrisy at its finest, oh the fear...

[observer]

Statements of the obvious don't appeal to those who's dogma clashes with reality.  The obvious being, that if a Country joins the EU, it's population are entitled to visa free travel throughout the EU - just a simple fact, that's already occurred with current members.  Fear is when you say Brexit will spark WW3 !    

[P J]

fear is when you say millions of Turks are coming and that Britain don't have a veto. Fear is suggesting Turkey will get in if we stay in the EU, they have tried and failed for 30 years.  Can't see Cyprus changing their minds can you?  Fear is when you put your head in the sand when virtually every respectable body tells you that leaving would cause financial hardship. Now I know this is your hobby horse and you have banged on with your right wing rants for years, totalling thousands of posts on the same or similar subject but what have you achieved?  Have you convinced and pro EU posters to vote leave?  What a waste of your time.

[observer]

What "pro-EU" posters ? Aside from you !! btw. The Turks are already here, check in the Barbers , the next time you check whether you need a haircut or not !!!!!