Globel Warming

[P J]

Observer, Just because natural phenomena affect the planet doesn't mean mans impact upon it can be ignored or passed off as unimportant.  You know nothing about the dinosaurs so stop your crap right there and try to deal in fact.  Nobody has claimed we have the ability to control nature, just that we have the stupidity and shortsightedness to affect it in a detrimental manner.  Your answer seems to be that it doesn't matter as you will be dead before the full consequences hit home.  Sort of sums you up really.

[observer]

I'll not bother with the fact that plants breath in CO2; just to say, that the climate change that the tree huggers are talking about, has all happened befor, several times, and well before man was thought of.   

[P J]

Trees breathe in co2, and store it, lock it in.  They give out carbon when they die and rot.  Human beings are deforesting the planet massively.  Thank you so very much for proving my point.

[fugtifino]

If you believe that we can prevent "global warming" or indeed any other environmental calamity; you obviously believe we have the power to control nature.

 

Cripes, here's another one, it's like a small flock.

 

Do you think you can read my mind now? I've never claimed any of these things. What I do think is that if we don't pay attention to all the warning signs then we will screw the place up, that's not the same as believing we have the power to control nature.

 

Is there something in the water around here?

[asperity]

The term "ocean acidification" is used because "ocean becoming very slightly less alkaline" isn't scary enough, in much the same way as "global temperature at it's hottest ever" is much more alarming than "global temperature 0.1 degree celsius warmer than a year ago". The pH of the oceans is about 8.1, neutral is 7.0. So there would have to be an awful lot of "acidification" before the neutral state was ever reached. There's a lot of ocean out there!

[P J]

if the Ph is changing and becoming less alkaline then the oceans are acidifying and all your bluff and bluster counts for nought.  The acidic levels do not need to reach neutral before harm is done to ocean life.  You surely know this?

[asperity]

There you go again, talking about "acidic levels" when the oceans are in fact alkaline. You fall for the alarmist line every time rather than look at the facts. Every single claim about "ocean acidification" causing harm to sea life has proved to be wrong and, in fact, it has been shown that in parts of the ocean where the water is markedly less alkaline (close to undersea volcanic vents for example) sea life was found to be not only unaffected but in fact thriving. The same with rising sea levels, which have been proved to be rising at the same steady rate that they have been for centuries. All alarmist talk and nothing more.

 

Maybe you should ask your Uncle Albert (is he a real uncle, or just a family friend/aquaintance?) for some advice.

[observer]

Believing you can change natural events on the planet, changes that have occurred before at regular intervals; is rather like King Canute's attempt to hold back the tide.

[fugtifino]

What kind of natural events are happening that people are saying they believe they can change?

 

changes that have occurred before at regular intervals

 

Ah, so you think natural changes are regular (would this make them reliably predictable?), and other posters in your camp believe nature is too chaotic to be able to use it to guess what the future holds..

 

I mean, if there is a pattern to natural changes then this should give us an idea of what's ahead shouldn't it?

 

Hmm, who to go with here?

 

And Cnut never believed he could hold back the tide, that was the point he was making, but you already know this.

[observer]

"Global Warming" - which has occurred at intervals throughout Earth history, so millions of years, not quite every week. I'm not in the camp of anyone; some completely dismiss the possibility of global warming, I don't. I merely suggest that there isn't a thing you can do to stop it, if that is the course of nature. Patterns are varied; from extinction events, through ice ages and mini-ice ages; if someone could predict them, he'd probably get crucified !  So like Cnut, I'm merely pointing it out.

[fugtifino]

I merely suggest that there isn't a thing you can do to stop it

 

And I merely suggest that there may be a few things we can do to help to slow it down that won't cost us that much.

 

I think it really depends how much it bothers you about what we leave for future generations.

[P J]

 

Maybe you should ask your Uncle Albert (is he a real uncle, or just a family friend/aquaintance?) for some advice.

Alas he died, but his funeral was a good laugh.

[Evil Sid]

 

Trees breathe in co2, and store it, lock it in.

see my post on page nine.

 

as a thought about "rising sea levels" maybe it's just the land that is sinking on the continental plates if the earth shrinking then the land masses will get slightly closer together and thus the resulatant area for water to occupy will be less. there is still the same amount of water but in a smaller area so the net effect is for the oceans to rise. (as good a theory as any and could be worth a few bob in grant money for some able body of researchers to test and debunk)

[Freeborn John]

if the Ph is changing and becoming less alkaline then the oceans are acidifying and all your bluff and bluster counts for nought.  The acidic levels do not need to reach neutral before harm is done to ocean life.  You surely know this?

The oceans are vitally important to the systems which govern life on this planet.

Elements of Global Warming Incorporated, as part of their hugely profitable war on CO2, actually proposed to add vast quantities of both Iron and urea to the worlds oceans in order to capture carbon and lock it up for a while by encouraging huge blooms of phytoplankton. And cash.

They wanted to screw with the environment for money, what's a bit of bluff and bluster compared to the possible consequences of that?

[P J]

Who are global warming incorporated?  Did you make it up?  Is their boss bald and lives in his secret base in a volcano? 

[observer]

So we're moving from stopping global warming, to slowing it down eh?!     Perhaps a better way of phrasing it, would be that we can mitigate the immediate effects of pollution; such as smog; with things like the clean air Act; and in Beijing the closing of factories and traffic. But with a growing middle-class in China and India, all wanting the trappings of "progress" like a new car and increasing energy expectations, the trend would seem to be going the wrong way.

[fugtifino]

Heh, here's another one kicking the pieces over and strutting around like he's won the game.

 

I've never claimed it can be stopped and you yourself have said there are those who beleive it's already too late to stop, so slowing it down is the next best thing we can hope to do. If you keep slowing something down, what's the ultimate result?

 

And you're always banging on about the survival insinct on here, so where's yours? Given up, have we?

 

Elements of Global Warming Incorporated, as part of their hugely profitable war on CO2, actually proposed to add vast quantities of both Iron and urea to the worlds oceans in order to capture carbon and lock it up for a while by encouraging huge blooms of phytoplankton. And cash.

 

So, come on then, let's have a link that demonstrates who all these green fatcats are who are raking the squillions in.

 

And, does it bother you about the billions that nuclear energy companies have received in subsidies?

[observer]

"If you keep slowing something down"; sorry Fugs, were not talking about a runaway train, were talking about the forces of nature. Survival in these circumstances, is based on the ingenuity to adapt to such changes, if there is any. There are immediate things that could be done, like reducing air pollution and waste, not because it will alter natural changes in the climate, but because it may immediatley provide clean air to breath. Many of our city centres are totally polluted by traffic fumes, but will we see everyone ditching their cars, to avoid an asthma epidemic?  Will we see Government building houses at high elevations and preventing building in flood plains? As for nuclear energy, I don't support it, as it actually costs more, in commissioning and decommissioning costs and has proved unsafe. So "not give up"; merely cynical !

[Bazj]

Alas he died, but his funeral was a good laugh.

 

ahh but which one?

[P J]

I don't know what triggered it though Baz

[Freeborn John]

Who are global warming incorporated?  Did you make it up?  Is their boss bald and lives in his secret base in a volcano? 

It's my umbrella term for the massive commercial operation which has just lately grown up around climate change.

I nearly did call it 'The Climate Change Company' but I thought people might associate it with morbidly obese Iranians defrauding governments out of millions.

[P J]

Ah  completely fictional then?  Figures.

[Freeborn John]

Ah  completely fictional then?  Figures.

I assure you, morbidly obese Iranians who run bogus charities do exist.

Honest.

[Bazj]

Ah  completely fictional then?  Figures.

 

so you don't think that there is a massive industry that has grown out of all this climate change (formerly global warming) stuff?

[P J]

I don't think there is an organisation called Global Warming Incorporated , I am not that stupid, do you?