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Dizzy

Warrington named the worst place in Britain for culture

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It is high brows who draw up list such as the one which has triggered this debate.  After 100 years of free education in this country, there shouldn't be any low brows any more but it seems you can't make silk purses out of sows' ears!

 

Incidentally, the "no canals" clanger was dropped, I think, by one of the newspapers reporting on the list, not by the RSA.

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This may be of interest to some of you regarding the Parr Hall and the Warrington Male Voice Choir.

http://www.warringtonchoir.org.uk/cavaille_c.html

It was written by the then Chairman, Barrie Johnson, who is now a Life Vice-President of this choir.

 

This link is to the Listed status of the Parr Hall - http://list.historicengland.org.uk/resultsingle.aspx?uid=1310063

 

This album description accompanies the series of photos on Flickr taken by Jill Coleman, at the request of the Warrington Male Voice Choir in 2009.  https://www.flickr.com/photos/visionthing64/sets/72157614126360274/

'The Cavaillé-Coll organ in the Parr Hall in Warrington is currently under threat of removal as part of a modernisation programme. Although other parties have expressed an interest in rehousing the organ, it is estimated that it would take £1 million to remove the instrument to a new location and rebuild it; it seems destined, therefore, to a future in storage and may never be heard again. This just seems unacceptable for a remarkable piece of craftsmanship that took a year to create.
Whether the Cavaillé-Coll organ should remain in its current location or whether it should move to somewhere where it would receive a wider audience has been the matter of much debate. However, it is one of very few of its type in largely original condition and so has an important place in musical history. Hopefully this will have some bearing on the final decision.'

 

The following, was the Government's reply to the 2009 on-line petition to keep the 1870 Cavaille-Coll Organ in the Parr Hall, Warrington, England.
This petition was signed by 716 people.

The reply to the petition: ----

'The decision whether to move the Cavaille-Coll Organ is one for Warrington Council, owners of Parr Hall. However, English Heritage – the Government’s adviser on the historic environment – has advised the Council that the organ should not be moved without listed building consent, and that they should take the community’s views into account, including those expressed in this petition, in deciding the best course of action.
English Heritage has further advised that the advantages and disadvantages of moving the organ are finely balanced. On the one hand it was moved twice previously, before being added to Parr Hall some time after its original construction, and there are questions over whether the organ itself might be better used in an alternative location, whilst also allowing more flexibility in the use of Parr Hall. On the other hand, the value which existing users of the hall attach to the organ and its significance in relation to performances, including a longstanding tradition of choral music, is well demonstrated by this petition and many other representations. It will be for the Council to determine the best way forward, taking all these views into account.'
(end of reply).

 

 

'

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Too much art is "emperors new clothes" based for my liking.... no amount of talk and advertising would ever convince me to go to an exhibition where the main attraction is an unmade bed or a cow cut in half and stuffed in a big jar...... it just isn't art, and some deluded art critic saying it is art still doesn't make it so

Each to their own I suppose.  There are many many works of art etc. that I don't like, appreciate or understand but thats my opinion.  It doesn't mean it isn't art because I don't like it.  I have viewed Caravaggio, Van Gogh and Banksy and enjoyed them equally but obviously in a different way.  I have taken great joy from some of the art my children have made for me yet to most that wouldn't be interesting.  Art definitions are many and varied but it is basically this, the expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power.  Now the pile of blocks and even the half a cow fit into this definition,  whether an individual likes it is irrelevant.  It is all subjective.  Even the "Shittles" in town are art, a ridiculously expensive and ill conceived installation(in my opinion) but art all the same.   We are all surrounded and influenced by art all our lives.  

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Thanks PJ -

Some time ago, I was told that there had been a Rubens in the Warrington Art Gallery, but it was probably too valuable to be on show, or for WBC to keep, and insure. I would love to know if there was any truth in this.

 

Another memory is of being told that Walkers Brewery gifted some valuable paintings to Warrington Corporation, only to be told later that Warrington had sold them. This possibly lead to the Walker Art Gallery being built in Liverpool, and not here.

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Hill Cliffe Walker, I can't help regarding your questions but if you ask Janice Hayes at Warrington Museum she will probably know.  She is an absolute mine of local information especially about the Museum and its works.

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Hill Cliffe Walker, i think the Walkers of brewing fame were actually a Liverpool family & business but set their brewery up in Warrington.

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more info here.

 

http://www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/walker/about/history/1873-1929.aspx

 

I wonder if this could be the "Rubens" you heard of?

http://www.thepcf.org.uk/artdetective/propose-a-discussion/painting/the-triumph-of-silenus-104137

 

There was also a photographer from Warrington in the late 1800's named Birtles who took photographs of classic works including Rubens.  Not answers but the plot thickens :wink:

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Each to their own I suppose.  There are many many works of art etc. that I don't like, appreciate or understand but thats my opinion.  It doesn't mean it isn't art because I don't like it.  I have viewed Caravaggio, Van Gogh and Banksy and enjoyed them equally but obviously in a different way.  I have taken great joy from some of the art my children have made for me yet to most that wouldn't be interesting.  Art definitions are many and varied but it is basically this, the expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power.  Now the pile of blocks and even the half a cow fit into this definition,  whether an individual likes it is irrelevant.  It is all subjective.  Even the "Shittles" in town are art, a ridiculously expensive and ill conceived installation(in my opinion) but art all the same.   We are all surrounded and influenced by art all our lives.  

 

 

A pile of blocks and half a cow and even an unmade bed ar not art.... they are a pile of blocks, half a cow and an unmade bed....People try and defend it as art because they think it is the trendy thing to do in my opinion....paintings, sculpture and even photography is art, but I'm afraiod that no amount of fancy explanations about emotional power will ever convince me otherwise.... now if Damian had painted the half cow or sculpted it from a block of marble.... that is a different issue altogether :)

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Bingo !!  Many thanks PJ.

 

In 1973, Radio 3's series 'Organ Gallery' visited Warrington for a programme about the Cavaillé-Coll organ in the Parr Hall.

John Lade interviewed organist Nicolas Kynaston, who demonstrated the qualities of the organ.

The programme included his playing at a recent recital there.

 

In conclusion, Nicolas Kynaston said this of the organ -

'It is a real treasure which deserves to be cherished, as much as the Rubens in the Warrington Art Gallery.

It is one of the most important things in this town, and should be preserved'.

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A pile of blocks and half a cow and even an unmade bed ar not art.... they are a pile of blocks, half a cow and an unmade bed....People try and defend it as art because they think it is the trendy thing to do in my opinion....paintings, sculpture and even photography is art, but I'm afraiod that no amount of fancy explanations about emotional power will ever convince me otherwise.... now if Damian had painted the half cow or sculpted it from a block of marble.... that is a different issue altogether :)

But because you don't approve or like something doesn't mean its not art,  it is as that is what it was imagined , designed and created to be so no matter how much you hate it doesn't matter as thats just your opinion.  In fact, many of these kind of art pieces are designed to draw exactly the reaction from you as they have.  I don't really like Damien Hursts work but I can't dismiss it as not art as its not my call.

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So Jihadi John chopping the heads of prisoners is art then? He has put his mind to creating an impact, an illusion of fear and the ultimate goal is to shock and gain a reaction.....Art???? I don't think so, or is that just my opinion too?

By the reasoning you are putting forward PJ, everything is art and that is just not the case

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So Jihadi John chopping the heads of prisoners is art then? He has put his mind to creating an impact, an illusion of fear and the ultimate goal is to shock and gain a reaction.....Art???? I don't think so, or is that just my opinion too?

 

By the reasoning you are putting forward PJ, everything is art and that is just not the case

That's about as stupid and ridiculous a post as I ever wish to have the misfortune to read. Get a grip.

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Shows how ignorant some folk are - the "shittles" were the work of a Cllr Anon.  Contempory art was invented by folk who can't draw !  :lol:

Who was at the helm, i.e. council leader when the Shittles were imposed, at great expense, on the tax payers of Warrington? I am  sure it wasn't Annon

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That's about as stupid and ridiculous a post as I ever wish to have the misfortune to read. Get a grip.

so enlighten me..... exactly what constitutes art?

 

I say it isn't a sawn up cow, an unmade bed or a pile of blocks.... what say you?

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I've tried to explain, you aren't interested in explanations.  One thing is for sure, it has nothing to do with beheading people, and you know that.

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I've tried to explain, you aren't interested in explanations.  One thing is for sure, it has nothing to do with beheading people, and you know that.

 

You tried to explain using the kind of nonsense explanation used by those who try and tell us that an unmade bed, a pile of blocks and a sawn up cow is art.... I was merely just trying to wind you up a bit seeing as its late :)

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I explained using a dictionary definition. And for the record depiction of brutal execution has been used in art for centuries not least Christian art,  but not the act of execution.  I cannot tell you what isn't art Bazj as it's not my call and I lack that arrogance and self importance.  If you were to ask do I like Hirsts work I would say no, if asked why it sells for such high prices I wouldn't have a clue other than to venture that money doesn't  buy taste, but that doesn't mean I can dismiss it as not art.  Like a lot of conceptual art its appeal escapes me.  

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I think art in what ever form (art, sculpture ,music,literature & whatever else) is a very fluid medium & relies on the bias of critics & the media to "educate" the masses into believing what this years trend is. Critics are no less a marketing tool than scantily clad ladies, macho sportsmen or cute kids in the war to "educate" the masses on which car to buy,what clothes to wear & what soap to use. 

No wonder the Rollin' Stones couldn't get satisfaction either.

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