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Dizzy

Warrington named the worst place in Britain for culture

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Shame I missed it but you clearly had your reasons for deleting whatever it was regardless of it's humour.  Did you keep a copy that you could send me via a pm as it must have been very funny to make Sha laugh :wink:  :lol:  (just kidding Sha) 

 

 

It wasn't that funny Dizzy,  I think SHA has a crush :wink:

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It strikes me that this is exactly what is going on with this bid for funding for a museum display. It's not about protecting or developing culture and heritage, it's about making it look as if they give a toss while they carry on their mission to make the town itself as bland as possible. They could spend 5 million towards something imaginative, but why bother when you can buy some digital installations that will be obsolete in a couple of years and drag some poor sod from the RSA around a museum dedicated to the things you've spent years tearing down before you all go out for a burger, curly fries and pre-mixed cocktail at Frankie & Benny's.

Do you know this or is it a guess?

 

p.s.  Frankie and Bennys don't do curly fries lol

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Do I know the difference between a museum display and something real? Yes. 

 

For all I know they have suddenly started to think it might be better to retain some character in the town after all and have started to apply for grants to look after the place. This isn't that though. It looks like a quick way of addressing the heritage issue they've neglected for too long.

 

They'll just have to order some nachos then. 

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Do I know the difference between a museum display and something real? Yes. 

 

For all I know they have suddenly started to think it might be better to retain some character in the town after all and have started to apply for grants to look after the place. This isn't that though. It looks like a quick way of addressing the heritage issue they've neglected for too long.

 

Is this a straw man I see before me?

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It doesn't sound as though you've seen the proposed plans for the old library yet PJ. I think once you do you'll see that they are more destructive than 'protective'.

The plans for the temporary market which will later house the new library have been shown on the news page, these were even described by councillors as 'bland and uninspiring'

 

My questions would be;

1) As heritage lottery funds are limited is the creation of a 'heritage hub' highest on the list of what Warrington needs?

2) Whilst it might be all well and nice to demolish and rebuild the modern extension part of the library, is it in such a structurally unsound state that it really needs it?

3) Why, if it's all supposed to be about 'Heritage' do they have to make such a modernistic mess of the interior of the old library and stick a glass/steel monstrosity outside?

 

Also, it's not really clear just what this 'hub' is for;

Digitalised history of Warrington, meeting place for history groups, venue to organise cultural activities/events, engaging/educating youth groups in heritage ................

Why do they need the old library for this? what's wrong with the Parr Hall or the Gateway?

Also, it seems to me that some of these 'activities' would be more appropriately classed as 'community/leisure' rather than 'heritage' - and should be funded from a different source. Are WBC attempting to source funds from the 'heritage lottery' pot to fund 'Community and Leisure' services?

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A blind guess then.

 

Not really. They're obviously rattled about the whole heritage thing and are looking for ways to address it. This is just the easiest and quickest way to do it. As you yourself have pointed out, they've been quite happy for heritage buildings to rot into the ground and artefacts to go to scrap and now they're facing up to the consequences of creating a nondescript and rootless network of retail parks, business parks and executive housing estates.  

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did you raise this at the meeting?

PJ, there was no opportunity to raise any questions about Culture Warrington's plans at the meeting. 

 

There were talks by;

1) Johnathon Schifferes  - about how the Heritage index was compiled and why Warrington came last.

2) Sara Hilton - on what types of projects the Heritage lottery funded.

 

 Directly after which there was a 25min slot allocated for "A positive debate about the issues raised by our keynote speakers".  This was the only time allocated for the public to speak.

 

Culture Warrington revealed their plans AFTER this so there was no opportunity to either question or comment on their plans at the meeting. 

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So no evidence then, merely a link to a funny but unrelated video.  Tell you what, I will meet you half way, you stop making stuff up and I will stop pointing it out.  This Council make more than enough factual cock ups to keep us going without making stuff up

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Did you not know I lived in Stoke before coming to Warrington? 

 

 

 

 

Well that explains a lot then I guess......

 

From the Historic England website I think Warrington has only 3 listed buildings "at risk" (plus Winwick church which is probably not at risk now having had nearly £2m spent on it). One is a barn in Culcheth, one's the transporter bridge, and one is the Drill Hall at the town hall - I'll find out what that needs doing - plus some unlisted buildings within conservation areas (Garnett works for one). The idea that Stoke is better than Warrington at saving its heritage would go down a riot in the Potteries.

 

If the drill hall is classed as being at risk... why was the huge South Lancs WW1 Regiment logo/painting/mural (call it what you will) allowed to be painted over on one of the inside walls?

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These are the Warrington buildings at Risk currently shown on the 'At Risk' Register.   Re: St Thomas's Church like it says a Heritage Grant has now been given and there is currently scaffolding round the tower and the work is in progress.

warrington%20heritage%20at%20risk%20regi

 

 

 

 

warrington%20heritage%20at%20risk%20regi

 

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So no evidence then, merely a link to a funny but unrelated video.  Tell you what, I will meet you half way, you stop making stuff up and I will stop pointing it out.  This Council make more than enough factual cock ups to keep us going without making stuff up

 

I think there's plenty of evidence that they're rattled by the heritage issue and looking for answers. I don't honestly see what you're 'pointing out'.

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Let's hope they come up with some decent ones then.  It may just be my natural cynicism but going by the evidence of their record, I am not overly optimistic yet would be delighted to be wrong.

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There's not just 3 Steve there's over 60 buildings actually on the 'at risk' register!  and there's more buildings in the so called Conservation area falling into ruin - not listed presumably because their being in the Conservation area should have been protection enough - (but obviously wasn't!) 

 

Can you let us know what's going to happen to the 21 buildings at risk in Bridge st?  Has money been set aside to renovate these out of the £107 million it's been reported is being spent on the Town Centre Regeneration Project?  One keeps hearing the term 'Bridge St Regeneration'  but this seems to be referring to the area behind Bridge St, which is rather confusing. 

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Sha, I see what you did there.

 

There are not 60 buildings at risk. There are not 21 at risk in Bridge Street. There are over 50 listed buildings in the Conservation Areas, but "at risk" doesn't apply to every listed building in the CA. I'm not aware that any of the individual listed buildings in the Bridge Street CA are at risk; obviously the Garnett site is in a bad state but that's not listed. The reason why buildings get "at risk" isn't that hard to fathom - Historic England reckon that on average, it costs half a million pounds more to repair a building than its eventual end value (so in England that's £3bn more than the "at risk" buildings are worth - even after Heritage Lottery or other repair funding).

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The honest truth is that any building that you and your council  chums have any control over are at risk Steve.  This council has been a lousy custodian.

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It seems anyone can apply to have a building listed.  Perhaps we should all get behind a few applications starting with the Garnetts building.  It seems pretty straight forward enough to me.  They even provide an online form and information.  Apparently if a building is under threat (and being in this town it is) then it will be given priority.

 

Here is a link to the form.

 

My only worry is that as soon as I apply I fear a mystery fire or supernatural force knocking it down before it can be saved.

 

http://historicengland.org.uk/listing/apply-for-listing/

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It seems anyone can apply to have a building listed.  Perhaps we should all get behind a few applications starting with the Garnetts building.  It seems pretty straight forward enough to me.

It isn't. They'll want you to take photos inside and out and I doubt there's a building in Warrington that could be listed that isn't (i.e. that Historic England would list). Certainly not the Garnett buildings. HE want the tower saved but won't list it. And the average half a million pounds more to repair than end value wouldn't go near to making that site viable for redevelopment by converting the buildings.

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The honest truth is that any building that you and your council  chums have any control over are at risk Steve.  This council has been a lousy custodian.

 

Now that, we can agree on. 

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They'll want you to take photos inside and out

Well I am sure if I ask the Council they can arrange access?  I am a photographer so no issue there.

 

 I doubt there's a building in Warrington that could be listed that isn't (i.e. that Historic England would list). Certainly not the Garnett buildings. 

 

How do you know?  have you tried and failed?

 

 

This could be something for the newly reformed Civic Society to look at as something needs to be done to protect our heritage from those who can't see beyond purely materialistic values.

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