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Egbert

Syrian immigrants

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While I have great sympathy for people fleeing desperate situations in any part of the world, isn't it time we started doing something about ending the war in Syria rather than opening the door to more and more immigrants? And by "we" I mean the whole of Europe, not just the UK.

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That is the secret . I don't know how many terrorists make up the ISIS gang & its affiliated factions ,but the powers that be need to get their eyes back on the ball & sort the whole sorry mess out. It isn't as if the "free" world has had no part in turning stable dictatorships into failed & unstable basket cases. Our governments have a lot to answer for.

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It's rather interesting that the US has criticised the Russian involvement in support of Assad. Strange that the US can intervene anywhere around the globe at a whim, but not the Russians or Chinese, or anyone else for that matter. IF the Russian do do well in stabilising the situation, we may have them to thank for less migrants !

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This now gets more insane, when we get a load of hand wringing on the news, over a Welsh Jihadi, killed by an RAF drone strike. OK, so it was in Syria, and we're not (officially) operating there; but at the end of the day, this guy was a member of the ISIS filth that's causing all the upheaval, so well done the RAF.

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I would think any rational person would expect a person preaching hate & being a potential threat to the country & public at large would be a fair target. The RAF have my vote & if this man's family & friends have any problems maybe they should ask themselves where their own allegiancies lie & also question why they allowed their loved on to cross the line of treason against his homeland.

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Well done! RAF boys and girls, any getting rid of these ISIS scum is welcome as far as I am concerned.

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It was their choice to go there and fight with ISIS and so hard luck and they got what they deserved in my opinion.  Here's hoping a lot more of them get the same !!

Going back to Egberts opening post though I too have sympathy for these poor refugees but on the news all night it's been saying the UK is going to take 22,000 of them in from the refugee camps and other countries are doing the same.

That's all very well and good but surely the camps will just fill up with more and more especially as they now have hope that they will/may be taken in so where on earth do you stop?

Like Egbert says something needs to be done to stop the wars and trouble but it's never worked in the past so god only knows how it could ever be achieved.

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The problem is Diz, that most of these "migrants" are not refugees, but economic migrants seeking " a better life". TV reports from along the route of this exodus, showed Afghans, Iraqis and Pakistanis discarding their passports and other 1D, in order to claim they were Syrian, and thus prioritised as refugees. Interesting also, that whilst Lebanon, Jordan and Turkey play their part; Israel (founded by refugees) doesn't want them and you can be sure that they won't be letting any in either. Also, Saudi Arabia and the Gulf States, who've backed the Sunni uprising in Syria, don't appear to want to take any either.

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Well, the killing of the Welsh Jihadi and his mates has certainly made headlines - and taken attention off the two drowned brothers.

Britons shocked to the core by the senseless death of babies have now bounced back in true fighting spirit - Good on the RAF !

 

I, like most people, was truly shocked and sickened to see photos of Aylun Kurdi, such a beautiful, perfect little child lying dead on the beach. I was disgusted when the photo's went viral, it seemed so disrespectful.

 

Each media source related the story, but……… confusingly not quite the same story! What the father was saying in one didn't match what he was saying in another.

I began to realise that the reason I couldn't get the picture of that poor, dead, perfect child out of my head was because he looked, unnervingly - too perfect!

Having spent 3 and 1/2 hrs being tossed around in a rough sea, he unbelievably hasn't got a mark on him and is neither bloated nor wrinkle skinned.

He is photographed by a photographer, who is photographed by another photographer who both just happen to be there in the early morning hours.

 

A true story or an excuse to commence air strikes on Syria?

Wasn’t the ‘all out’ on Sadam Hussain precipitated by claims of outrageous atrocities followed by perceived threats?

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Not being a believer in the possibility that governments could act with purely altruistic intentions I wonder why are European governments so suddenly welcoming to these immigrants?

 

If the general good of the Syrian people were a genuine concern then the exodus of all these young, strong, healthy people, (who are also, from some sources, noted to be from the most educated and wealthy section of the population) would be frowned upon. As, soon there will be no-one left in Syria to protect the old and vulnerable, or to rebuild the country once European powers and the US have blitzed it to the ground. 

Perhaps that is the intention?

Perhaps the prior removal and dispersal of the young strong and healthy will make it easier when it comes to dishing out the ludicrous rebuilding contracts and will ensure there is no resistance to the govt they eventually decide to put in power. (lessons learned perhaps from previous 'invasions'?) 

 

If the US/Israeli intention to create a 'Greater Israel' is the ultimate objective of the conflict - then there will be no future repatriation of these immigrants.

Has perhaps Merkel's rush of 'sympathy' been prompted by the intention to 'fulfil their quota' of the youngest , strongest, healthiest, most educated and wealthiest. Leaving the rest of Europe to share out the older, weaker, poorer..........?  

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Three points.

1 If you join up with ISIS, take the consequences.

2 This taking these refuges, is spread over a 5 year period. WHY?

3 Where are they going to be housed. We don't build council houses anymore. Affordable homes? you're having a laff ain't you?

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Well, the killing of the Welsh Jihadi and his mates has certainly made headlines - and taken attention off the two drowned brothers.

Britons shocked to the core by the senseless death of babies have now bounced back in true fighting spirit - Good on the RAF !

 

I, like most people, was truly shocked and sickened to see photos of Aylun Kurdi, such a beautiful, perfect little child lying dead on the beach. I was disgusted when the photo's went viral, it seemed so disrespectful.

 

Each media source related the story, but……… confusingly not quite the same story! What the father was saying in one didn't match what he was saying in another.

I began to realise that the reason I couldn't get the picture of that poor, dead, perfect child out of my head was because he looked, unnervingly - too perfect!

Having spent 3 and 1/2 hrs being tossed around in a rough sea, he unbelievably hasn't got a mark on him and is neither bloated nor wrinkle skinned.

He is photographed by a photographer, who is photographed by another photographer who both just happen to be there in the early morning hours.

 

A true story or an excuse to commence air strikes on Syria?

Wasn’t the ‘all out’ on Sadam Hussain precipitated by claims of outrageous atrocities followed by perceived threats?

fancy you realising that and every forensic investigator and pathologist on the planet missed it,  its not like you could just make it up.  Oh and the photographers were there to cover the plight of refugees in Turkey and did what photographers do, took photos.

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Peter, re your Three points;

1) Totally agree.

2) 5 years is probably how long they think it will take them to blitz Syria to the ground and set up a new government. By that time most of the young and healthy will have been distributed throughout Europe and the rest will have been blitzed.

3) Perhaps there will be more cuts to public services and more loans given from borough councils to housing associations to provide the accommodation needed? 

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PJ. I have not read anywhere of any forensic investigator or pathologist having made any reports re this. Something I find quite unusual!  

What I have read is that the bodies were shipped straight to Syria for immediate burial.

 

I also read that the Turkish police had been questioning Abdullah Kurdi re the 'people smugglers' and also the 'Turkish Captain' who had according to Abdullah jumped ship - apparently he retracted his earlier statements and said that no 'people smugglers' were actually on board. Abdullah then went to Syria and has said he has now no plans to leave - so it's unlikely the Turkish police will be able to conduct any in depth investigation.

 

You don't appear to have read much on this story. There were reports in most news papers and in them Abdullah gave very different accounts of what had happened on that night.

 

Different accounts that have been given;-

They sail at 3-4am in pitch black on a calm sea, only 4 mins later and 500 metres from shore, they are hit by high waves, the Turkish captain abandons ship, the other 'people smuggler's' panic (so as well as the 12 there are circa 4 more aboard).

 

Whatever,... Abdulla takes over the steering, the dingy flips over and they are all tipped into the sea.

 

He has his boys in his arms, he is also holding his wife's hand. They cling to the dingy for about an hour, (but it was deflating), Everyone in the water is screaming and because of the noise, when Abdullah is shouting to his wife and family - to try and find them - they can't hear him. But he hears Alyun saying to him "daddy don't die".(at just 3yrs old he can understand the concept of death?)

He sees Galip is dead and lets him go, then he realises that Aylun is dead and he lets him go, he looks for his wife, she is so bloated he can't recognise her. He hangs on to the Dingy until he is rescued.

 

A conflicting account;-

They were sailing for 20 mins (not 4mins) before the high waves hit them and are not far from land, he swims to the shore and looks for his wife and children who he thinks must have "got scared and run away" (he has obviously forgotten that they had died at sea 4mins away from the other shore). Not finding them he goes back.  He is rescued, hanging on to the dingy, where he has been for about 3 hrs in the water trying to survive until he is rescued.

But..... other reports say he is found semi-conscious on the beach.

 

 

 

Aylun is found by a barman, (or was it fishermen?) at around 6.30am. 

And as I said previously, having spent 3 and 1/2 hrs being tossed around in a rough sea, unbelievably hasn't got a mark on him and is neither bloated nor wrinkle skinned. He is then photographed by a photographer, who is photographed by another photographer who both just happen to be there in the early morning hours - before any rescue services have even had chance to turn him over to check for signs of life. (Note the photographer's face.....if you had just found a dead 3yr old would you look so calm and unaffected?) 

 

 

After giving wildly differing accounts of what happened on the night to the press, Abdullah when questioned by the Turkish police changes his story again. He then 

goes quickly to Syria..... to bury his family (none of whom incidentally have ever appeared with him on photo's he has posted of himself over some period of time on facebook).

What appears to be an all male funeral takes place in Syria. 

Some sources in Syria appearing to be somewhat confused by all the world's attention on Abdullah Kurdi……… who they always believed to have the surname Shenu and originate from Damascus.    

 

 

 

Meanwhile, his sister in Canada is giving interviews to the media, saying how she raised the $5,000 to pay the people smugglers with the help of her friends (some of whom, incidentally, according to her facebook account, happen to be very wealthy Saudi's).

 

Abdullah says " we want the whole world to see this" and whilst seeming to blame every man and his dog for the tragedy doesn't seem very interested in helping the Turkish police find the captain who jumped ship or the people smugglers who overloaded them onto a rubber dingy and gave them fake lifejackets.

 

Now surely, there must be someone other than me who thinks there's something really strange about all this? 

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Thank goodness we were not present to witness the event so it is doubtful the truth will never be revealed and all the huffing and puffing and locking of antlers on this forum can never affect the outcome of any inquiry, that is if any ever takes place.

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Now surely, there must be someone other than me who thinks there's something really strange about all this? 

Nope, just you.

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It doesn't bother you then, that the only witness to the event has given a number of wildly differing versions of what (supposedly) happened, despite the fact that this 'event' is being used as an excuse to command the British Air Force to commence air strikes on Syria?

 

Once Britain takes such steps there will be no going back. How long after the air strikes will it be until ground troops are sent in - and ultimately how many British boys will be sent home in body bags? How many British civilians (including children) will die as a result of revenge terrorist  attacks? I don't know how people can be so complacent!

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it doesnt occur to you that different media sources have reported his words differently? not that any media would do that. I am not even sure what point about the child's death you are trying to make. Are you saying he didn't drown, wasn't dead, it was faked, the photographer set the scene up ??????

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So you think the media have 'invented' the quotes apparently said by Abdullah? And our Govt hasn't noticed the discrepancies? As these reports are so wildly conflicting our Govt should have insisted on a full investigation. To act on the strength of such weak evidence will leave them open to accusations of war crimes - but as Blair got away with it they probably expect to as well. 

 

As for what I am saying about the child's death - the photo on the beach is what is supposed to be the 'evidence' of what happened.

I absolutely don't believe that child's body could possibly have been tossed about in a rough sea for 3 1/2 hrs.

The photo was obviously constructed for 'effect'.  There was actually another photograph of the body being found in a different location among rocks. So what were they doing? dragging a dead child's body about to get the best pose? Could anyone be that sick? Makes me wonder if it was in fact a dummy.

 

Abdullah's real name was not Kurdi but Shenu. He had been a contributor to facebook and had posted photos of himself for some time but never any of the wife and kids - Is there any proof that he ever actually had a wife and kids?

If there was no 'Turkish Captain' on the boat and no 'people smugglers' and it was he who was steering the boat - what does that make him? 

If your wife and children had died in this way PJ would your reactions have been like his?  I doubt it!  You most likely, like most normal people would want a full inquiry and would not have 'disappeared' until those responsible were brought to justice.

Abdullah's reactions have been abnormal - none of it adds up.

 

  

 

 

The whole story could be a complete lie.     

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What a crock of lies, fantasy, half truths, fiction and none sense , I love a good conspiracy theory but this one belongs with the bus found in iceberg category on the front of the Sunday Sport. Except the sport was being comical not nasty.You may believe whatever you wish but that doesn't mean it's true.

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Which bit do you think is lies, fantasy, half truths, fiction and nonsense?  All I have done is recount the different versions that have appeared in the press? And given my own view that the whole story appears to me to be a mixture of, as you say, lies, fantasy, half truths, fiction and nonsense.

(And PJ, I see you are resorting to your usual personal attacks, and name calling - which usually points to the fact that you have realised that you have no constructive contribution to make - I'm neither bothered nor swayed by such childish tactics - sticks and stones and all that.......)

  

In addition to what I've already said re the press reports;-

What has surprised me is that, given the discrepancies in the various news reports, David Cameron has not taken the newspaper editors to task. As the general public are being led to believe that he is basing his decisions on the so called evidence being printed, which is obviously wildly contradictive - but which he appears not to realise! he is beginning to look a complete idiot! 

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Now I do enjoy a good personal attack but where on earth did i attack you and not your flights of fantasy ? Was going to say you couldn't make it up but obviously someone can.

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Don't forget there are also allegations now of poison gas attacks on civilians so we should soon have a good reason to get involved.

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You obviously don't realise when you are doing it.

 

You wrote; "Except the sport was being comical not nasty"

You infer I was being "nasty".  because I pointed out discrepancies in Abdullah's accounts of what happened? 

 

As for "conspiracy theories" that particular phrase was coined after the murder of Marilyn Monroe and Assassination of the President, It was an attempt by the US Govt to ridicule and silence the public and stop speculation on the murders. It didn't work.

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