observer Posted November 4, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2007 We are descendends of immigrants HL; from the original humans who spread throughout the globe from Africa. They then settled in different areas and their physical appearance changed as they adapted to their enviroments. However, this took millions of years of evolution. As for positives; it's a myth; any population increase brings demands as well as supply; and if it occurs rapidly, without any preparation or planning (as is the current case); it can bring chaos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harmless loony Posted November 4, 2007 Report Share Posted November 4, 2007 But there are still more natives who claim benefits than immigrants. Why should those who have never worked a day in their life be entitled to claim benefits just because (by chance) they happened to be born here? They should be no more entitled to those benefits than those who come in fresh to the country! There are lots of jobs in this country - why aren't the natives getting up off their backsides and working? Perhaps we need to sort our own lot out before we start blaming the new arrivals for copying this behaviour? [ 04.11.2007, 14:21: Message edited by: harmless loony ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted November 4, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2007 Well here's the rub HL: we have approxiamately 5million economically inactive indigenous Brits, dependent on various types of benefit, to which most are no doubt entitled. This has derived from the Thatcher legacy: when she determined to curb the power of organised labour, de-man or even close down our industrial base; she needed to be able to allow for mass unemployment. She was opportunely aided in this endevour by the revenues from North Sea Oil, which rather than being used to improve our economic and social infrastructure, were used to keep folk out of work. Because of the embarrassment of a large number of unemployed on the register; many were gradually transfered to other benefits such as incapacity; this has continued to-date; with now second and third generations never knowing work, only benefit dependence. [ 04.11.2007, 14:52: Message edited by: observer ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted November 4, 2007 Report Share Posted November 4, 2007 HL, Should we not be dealing with BOTH problems? TWO wrongs don't make a right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harmless loony Posted November 4, 2007 Report Share Posted November 4, 2007 I agree Peter - that's the point I'm making. Everyone is so keen on dealing with the immigrant issue - they're not looking at our home grown problems which are just as relevant. But then I suppose immigration makes great headlines and preys on people's odd fears hence why politicians love playing that card. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted November 4, 2007 Report Share Posted November 4, 2007 Probably more to do with votes. Wait until the BNP jump on the band-wagon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted November 4, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2007 That's the problem HL; "the Politicians" havn't been "playing that card": in fact they've all been in denial for the past ten years, as any rational appraisal of immigration and demographics is immediatley howled down by the PC Brigade as racist. However, the BNP, and to an extent UKIP don't have those concerns, and thus will be the only beneficeries of this political void. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephanie Anderson Posted November 5, 2007 Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 HL, I'm sorry if I've upset you but I wasn't talking of families like yours that have lived in England for Generations, have paid taxes, worked hard and have done everything within the Law. England does have a big problem and they need to solve it and looking back on History will not solve anything. Back then Different people, different world and different mind set. I moved to another country and respect the laws and the way of life over here and I just want the people going into my country to do the same. Yes there are alot of English born people that abuse the system but having a larger population will only make the system break down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary Posted November 5, 2007 Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 I agree Peter - that's the point I'm making. Everyone is so keen on dealing with the immigrant issue - they're not looking at our home grown problems which are just as relevant. But then I suppose immigration makes great headlines and preys on people's odd fears hence why politicians love playing that card. HL - that is the way politicians get elected by using old fears! That is also the way my president got re-elected and it stinks. We occasionally have a problem with immigration over here but they play it down so that, we the people, don't remind them that 98% are from immigrant stock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Kennedy Posted November 6, 2007 Report Share Posted November 6, 2007 That is true Mary, but you all regard yourselves as "Americans" irrespective of your origins....or you used to...maybe times have changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted November 6, 2007 Report Share Posted November 6, 2007 Originally posted by Mary: HL - that is the way politicians get elected by using old fears! That is also the way my president got re-elected and it stinks. Was it ? I thought it was fudging the figures that did it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted November 6, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2007 Hanging chads in Florida; where his brother was Govenor! The US has a problem on their southern border, with illegal entrants - as does Europe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary Posted November 6, 2007 Report Share Posted November 6, 2007 Umm well your right about brother Jeb I think but as far as our southern borders - we are talking about immigrants here aren't we NOT illegal immigrants?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willywonka Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 Hard to tell wherever you're talking about Mary, some people just can't make that distinction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 Very true WW! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted November 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 The distinction has been made crystal clear many times on this topic WW, between "illegals", assylum seekers and the rest, so don't get your toga ruffled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 Well it seems the powers`that be are discovering that un-managed immigration is placing a strain on public services and compromising anti-poverty efforts in poor areas. Well go to the top of the class and give the pencils out for that lightening bolt of common sense. And here's me thinking, all these immigrants came over here to contribute to society, becoming millionaires and buying our football clubs! Here we go WW - looks like it was about legal immigrants, originally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted November 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 Page 7: posted 25/07/07. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willywonka Posted November 8, 2007 Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 No need for anyone to get chippy, it's not like I mentioned any names or anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted November 8, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 It's about "unmanaged" immigration: this Gov promised a "managed" immigration policy; but have opened our doors to a flood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted November 11, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2007 It's also about Government incompetance: the latest gem is that, "illegal" immigrants have been employed by the Met Police and in security jobs at our Ports, which might explain how they get into the country so easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Kennedy Posted November 11, 2007 Report Share Posted November 11, 2007 I read that myself Observer. Chaos, utter chaos. I guess in the name of political correctness it is not possible to consider, as a first step, that those people whose accent is not from these shores, might be here illegally and therefore might merit some thought as to their status. Also I seem to recall that employers had a legal duty to ensure they did not employ illegals. No wonder those migrants who are here legally are so annoyed that they do the right thing and a blind eye is turned to those who do not. [ 11.11.2007, 15:04: Message edited by: Paul Kennedy ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary Posted November 11, 2007 Report Share Posted November 11, 2007 Scotland Yard in shambles - CIA definitely a shambled, don't get me started on the FBI; whats next Interpol? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted November 12, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2007 A YouGov Poll has found 80% in favour of a radical reduction in immigration to the UK - will the main Political Parties take note? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Kennedy Posted November 12, 2007 Report Share Posted November 12, 2007 Neither the former or the latter in the short to medium term, Observer. Interestingly I was chatting to somebody who had been canvassing in Blackpool, an area of nice executive style homes. He was shocked that people said that after due consideration that if the BNP stood they would vote for them, and implied that if they didn't stand then they would not vote at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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