Immigration?

[Paul Kennedy]

A headline from The Daily Mail:

 

"Migrant jobs fiasco: Official estimate goes from 800,000 to 1.5m in 24 hours"

 

Might be better if they just said we haven't a clue really as we have an open borders policy and number checking is therefore irrelevant...and pointless and further as a Government we have given up on planning services etc....as we will only be in office until May 2010 at the latest and are leaving everything for the next lot to sort out. Also we, the government, don't care about possible social unrest. :redmad:

 

[ 31.10.2007, 07:40: Message edited by: Paul Kennedy ]

[Geoff Settle]

Surely one reason why they go to Lincoln is for the seasonal work harvesting the crops etc, similarly Blackpool.

 

Who are these experts claiming that they bring all these economically inactive family members with them?

 

I'd have thought that the migrants are young and simply wanting to see if the grass is greener.

 

If the home office haven't a clue as to who has come in and who has left how does anyone else know?

 

Not sure what this optimum figure 36 million is all about, if that was the case years ago when this figure was reached Great Britain would have put it's feet up and retired long ago and no one would be working at all.

[Paul Kennedy]

Originally posted by Geoff Settle:

Surely one reason why they go to Lincoln is for the seasonal work harvesting the crops etc, similarly Blackpool.

 

And indeed Kent, not sure about agriculture in Slough though.

 

I think the worrying thing Geoff is that the Government hasn't a clue, and it needs to as public services are based mainly on per capita funding, particularly those provided by local government.

 

It's not the overall population that is the problem, it is the population density in certain areas. Loads of space in northern Scotland.

 

[ 31.10.2007, 08:41: Message edited by: Paul Kennedy ]

[observer]

The UK is one of the most densely populated countries on earth; this is further exacerbated by concentrations in our Cities and the S/East; which brings extraordinary demands for housing and other services; and our social infrastructure. The Government abandoned exit checks and the entry checks are guestimates based on samples at three airports; so they have/had no idea of the numbers of immigrants involved when the made their fatefull decision to allow free/unrestristricted access to the Poles.

 

[ 31.10.2007, 17:23: Message edited by: observer ]

[JimmyMac]

Originally posted by observer:

With the exeption of Holland; the UK is one of the most densely populated countries on earth;

Point of information: why except Holland? If the UK is "one of the most densely populated countries on earth" then that should surely be the case whether Holland is included or not.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population_density

[observer]

If we dismiss the tiny Islands and Principalities; we appear to be about 12th. However, this doesn't account for concentrations of population, as in London and the S/East.

[asperity]

The lack of concentration in the south east - specifically the Westminster part - seems to be the cause of this problem

[observer]

Perhaps the lack of original ideas - too busy filling in their expenses claims!

[Geoff Settle]

 

[ 01.11.2007, 23:45: Message edited by: Geoff Settle ]

[observer]

Tut,tut: the usual PC attack from the complacent, bend over at Dover and pull my toga down when you've finished Brigade. So stick to the issue, and by all means counter punch with some facts, rather than descending into the usual cat calls.

[Bazj]

There is a card in the Town Hall reception which indicates to people in about 20 different languages to point to which one is theres and an interpreter will be sent for!!

 

are there really that many languages spoken in the town hall??

 

or maybe they have to bring in an outside contractor

[Paul Kennedy]

Maybe they should have a computer set up, so that people could type into it their message, and Google or some other translating site would translate it. Technology should keep the costs down. Might not be too convenient, and therefore might encourage people to learn/improve their English. There is no money at the Town Hall for "luxuries".

[Geoff Settle]

Originally posted by observer:

Tut,tut: the usual PC attack from the complacent, bend over at Dover and pull my toga down when you've finished Brigade. So stick to the issue, and by all means counter punch with some facts, rather than descending into the usual cat calls.

Obs what triggered this outburst of yours whose cat calling you?

 

Surely trying to help people and offer translation facilities is a positive move. Take Paul's suggestion its a good idea.

 

[ 02.11.2007, 07:48: Message edited by: Geoff Settle ]

[observer]

The cost of translation services is what is eating into many school and other budgets; if there were a pre-requirement to read/write English by all immigrants; that cost would be saved - common sense methinks?!

[Peter T]

Originally posted by BazJ:

There is a card in the Town Hall reception which indicates to people in about 20 different languages to point to which one is theres and an interpreter will be sent for!!

 

are there really that many languages spoken in the town hall??

 

or maybe they have to bring in an outside contractor

Judging by what comes out, they ALL speak a different language to the rest of us.

[observer]

They even speak a different language to each other!

[JimmyMac]

Originally posted by observer:

If we dismiss the tiny Islands and Principalities; we appear to be about 12th. However, this doesn't account for concentrations of population, as in London and the S/East.

The United States is at #146 - that doesn't take into account for concentrations around New York City. Cities are places where lots of people live, and are thus inherently densely populated - so I wouldn't claim the south east corner of this country has any particular claim to fame on that score.

[observer]

Oh yes it does: if you remember the problems with water shortages and the pressures for house building - demand is exeeding supply.

[Paul Kennedy]

An interesting statistic appeared in yesterday's Mail regarding immigration and the Romanians - in Italy!

 

The Italians have just brought in a law which makes it easier to expel 'undesirables' from other EU countries, apparently. The article continues, 'The move came amid outrage over the sex attack murder of an admiral's wife by a Romanian migrant....'

 

'The change, and fears of a backlash over the murder, led to an immediate exodus of Romanians by bus'!

 

'Romanians have been blamed for 76 murders in the last 18 months, half of all rapes and a surge in people trafficking and prostitution.'

 

And the interesting statistic? - 'At the same time, crime in Romania has FALLEN by 26 per cent.'

 

As I understand it, EU officials have looked into the Italian's actions and have confirmed that they do comply with EU law. So given that fact and the fact that we in the UK produce enough of our own criminals we might now consider sending home the imports......and maybe we could slip in a few of our native variety as well.

 

What this and no doubt previous governments have failed to consider is the detailed and long term implications for the infrastructure of our country when Treaties etc are signed. I accept hindsight is a marvellous thing, but those who enter into all of these arrangement, do put themselves up as "experts".

[Stephanie Anderson]

I'm all for people going to another country to make a better life, I did it but I did it the right way.

England has a BIG problem and until the elected Goverment start at least admitting they have a problem and trying to do something about it. I can only see it getting worse.

 

1) Close the gates!

2) In England you speak English, fly the English Flag and wear the School uniform.

3) You can only come to England if you speak the language, have a job to come to and have enough money to live of.

4) No Freebies until you have paid into the system for at least 3-5yrs.

5) If you wasn't born in England but have changed your nationality to British citizen and you do something against the country or break the law. Then it should be revoked and the person sent back.

[observer]

It's not just a problem on this side of the pond Steph; as you will no doubt know. Economic migration is a world phenomena encouraged by the so-called global village. The richer areas of the world a sucking in cheap labour, and denuding many poorer countries of their skilled labour. There are of course demographic implications which may or may not lead to social trauma, if economic bubbles begin to burst.

[harmless loony]

Steph - surely then in America you should be speaking the language of the American Indians (the true American peoples) instead of English? If the newcomers to America all those years ago had integrated properly they wouldn't have murdered, raped and attacked the natives (oh and stolen their land...) but rather they would have adapted to the Native American way of life?

 

It seems it's ok for the English to invade other countries and change the culture but don't like tasting their own medicine here....you reap what you sow!

 

The way some people lecture others on here makes me laugh. I can guarantee - I bet none of you have "pure" English blood and are in one way or another descendents of immigrants.

 

I suppose now some of you understand how the Spanish feel with the huge number of Brits not integrating or speaking the home language!

 

And nice to see you all ignored the report released last week which showed the net contribution of immigrants is actually positive - the economy is benefitting from having them here. If the South East has a problem with too many people - shift them up to Scotland which is struggling because they do not have enough people - in the next 30 yrs some towns in Scotland are going to be wiped out completely! Perhaps a far more sensible govt policy would be redistribute people by making the North more attractive to work in rather than focusing everything on London!

[Paul Kennedy]

....which they will of course, Observer, starting with the current "credit crunch". The level of personal debt in the UK, excluding mortgages, exceeds the GDP of the UK. Or to put it another way, Britons owe more money than our entire economy can generate in a year.

[Paul Kennedy]

Originally posted by harmless loony:

 

The way some people lecture others on here makes me laugh. I can guarantee - I bet none of you have "pure" English blood and are in one way or another descendents of immigrants.

 

 

Certainly am, Irish, Scottish and...... hate to admit this Welsh

 

 

 

I suppose now some of you understand how the Spanish feel with the huge number of Brits not integrating or speaking the home language!

 

That is of course a problem for the Spanish. Guess their builders are grateful for the money that they have received irrespective of the language it was handed over in. On a personal point, if I were ever to live in a non English speaking country I certainly would want to speak the native language in order to be able to fully integrate in that country and to avail myself of all aspects of its culture/life etc. But we native English speakers are absolute shockers....but that is what comes of having a world language.

 

[harmless loony]

Welsh? It's ok I won't tell anyone....

 

I think it would be better if we started learning languages from nursery age. I believe there is a study that shows bilingual children perform better in school then mono lingual children - so there appears to be some benefit even if one doesn't intend to travel abroad!

 

I like being multi lingual - I have a list of about 8 or 9 languages I want to learn on top of what I already know - but just need to find the time to study!