Immigration?

[muttzy]

Originally posted by Paul Kennedy:

If that is the case then all well and good, however I'm not convinced whether we really know either way as the figures are so complex to calculate, and in so being we end up with rather subjective views. My fear, based on door to door canvassing and surveys I'm involved with, is that the more pessimistic opinion is in the ascendancy, and if there is a down turn in the economy such opinions will turn into resentment and all of it connotations in some areas of our country.

Well, having done several dozen surveys and canvassed thousands of households over the past few years I can tell you straight away what people's top 5 concerns are in no particular order:

anti social behaviour,fly tipping,dog fouling, parking and traffic (either speeding or congestion).Regardless of the ward these always come back as the top concerns, occasionally a local planning issue may figure as well. I think I've spotted the flaw in your local Tory campaigns PK

[Paul Kennedy]

Talking about national politics Muttzy, not local, and I can assure you that amongst the concerns mentioned is the one of immigration/border controls, along with pensions, taxation in general, NHS, lawlessness and increases in council tax.

[observer]

"lump them in the same pot" eh? Well errr yes: all are "immigrants"; some are legal (EU free movement of labour); some are waiting to find out whether they will be legalised (assylum seekers); and some are illegal (the one's they can't trace).

[observer]

Ooops, almost forgot: Mr Brown is now getting tough on immigrants - all immigrants who commit crime are to be deported (another job for Cherie Bliar there?!).

[Peter T]

That's a Roger.

[observer]

Seems our gloomy predictions re: the new EU entrants were correct: Rumanian Gypsies have formed a bridge-head in Slough and are hard at work "begging" in their Town Centre. But it appears some of their Countrymen do.

[observer]

Well the "official" figures have been issued by Government: 685,000 since 2004, mainly Poles, but with an additional 10,000 Bulgarians/Rumanians. Meanwhile, in a frantic effort to deport foreign criminals from our jails, the Government are being ham strung by their own "Human Rights Act" and by EU Directives; which infers that they are no longer in control of affairs within this Country. And we still havn't a clue as to how many, who or where the 500,000 plus illegals are?! What a pathetic shower we've got in charge.

[Paul Kennedy]

Seems as though some of our indigenous folk have given up and have left. This from today's Daily Mail:

 

A record number of Brits are packing their bags and escaping soaring house prices, wet weather and the perception of rising crime for a new life abroad, according to new figures.

 

 

The Office of National Statistics showed 385,000 people migrated from the country in the year to July 2006.

 

This is the highest figure since official counting methods were introduced in 1991.

 

Nearly 200,000 of the migrants were British citizens, according to the statistics.

 

The most popular destination for migrants was Australia, with South Africa proving to be another favourite.

 

The number of long-term migrants who arrived in the UK in the same period was 574,000, slightly down on the previous year.

 

Overall, the population of the country rose 0.6 per cent in the year to 60,587,000.

 

The data revealed that in 2005/06, 74,000 people from the Eastern European countries which joined the European Union in May 2004 arrived in the UK - a much lower figure than the number registered to work by the Home Office in separate statistics.

 

The ONS figures indicated that 16,000 from the so-called A8 countries left the UK in the same period.

 

Within the UK an exodus of Londoners from the city - at a rate of 20,000 a month - has been blamed on rising house prices in the capital.

 

Young families in particular are being priced out of the capital, which saw 243,000 residents heading for other parts of the country between June 2005 and June last year.

 

Despite the losses London's population ghas increased by a total of 56,000, now standing at 7,512,370.

 

Statistician Karen Dunnell said the British population was changing rapidly, with increasing flows of people both into and out of the country and around Britain.

 

Population growth, a rising birth rate and a slowing death rate led to the overall growth in the UK's population last year.

 

Before the figures were released Westminster Council claimed the ONS should be handed emergency cash to improve data on population levels.

 

It called on the Treasury to give extra money to the ONS following a long-running dispute over the way migrant levels are measured.

 

Westminster claims its population was vastly under-estimated in the 2001 Census, leaving it out of pocket when government funds were handed out.

 

Westminster deputy leader Colin Barrow has written to Treasury Minister Angela Eagle to ask for immediate help to sort out the "statistical mess" following the arrival of eastern Europeans who joined the European Union in two waves in 2004 and at the start of this year.

 

"We are increasingly worried about the current accuracy and mismanagement of the official population figures, the letter said.

 

"The present method of measuring migration to and from council areas is no longer fit for purpose and in need of an urgent injection of resource and Government commitment.

 

"Instead, the Office for National Statistics is facing ?25m funding cuts whilst the Treasury itself had only been asked to find ?11.9m savings."

 

Today's ONS figures suggested there were 159,000 more births than deaths in the last 12 months.

 

The number of people aged 85 or over grew by per cent to 1,243,000 while the number of people of retirement age increased by one per cent to 11,344,000."

 

Looking at out total population, if the UK had a "Plimsoll Line" engraved on the White Cliffs of Dover, it would be showing a worrying position.

 

I also notice in the same article a note that 1 in 4 of all births in the UK were to a foreign parent, although it didn't indicate the actual trend so I don't know if 1 in 4 has been the norm for many years.

[Peter T]

Read an article the other day, where Oz wants to entice more Brits, as they did years ago.

[Paul Kennedy]

But still only those people with selected occupations, their immigration controls in reality are still strict, as I understand it, older workers will be accepted whereas before being over 40 went against you in their points system. I guess that they obviously had in mind a possible burden on their welfare system of admitting too many older people.

[Peter T]

Just a shame that we don't think like that.

[observer]

Well, the Brown Government is getting there slowly: with the insistance that new immigrants have a command of the English language.

[observer]

Well it appears to be fact - that crime has increased with the increase in immigration: seems the Police are asking for more resources to tackle an increase in prostitution and road traffic offences. And to compound 10 years of New Labour folly, the beard and sandals brigade in the Liberal Party are calling for an amnesty for "illegal" immigrants, that's their answer to crime, just decriminalise everything and turn the other cheek.

 

[ 19.09.2007, 11:56: Message edited by: observer ]

[Legion]

Originally posted by observer:

Well, the Brown Government is getting there slowly: with the insistance that new immigrants have a command of the English language.

getting there slowly, could it get any slower, its been what now TEN YEARS (it might be a diffrent head but its the same hydra).

[observer]

indeed; ten years and over a million "illegals" later!

[Paul Kennedy]

......and now even Chief Constables are saying that they are having problems, emphasising the substantial increase in knifings and drunk driving involving Poles and other East Europeans.

 

That being said, I must admit all of the Poles & E.Europeans I've come into contact with, albeit not many, have been very nice.

 

PS Seems as though the Liberal Democrats have found the solution for dealing with illegal immigrants:

 

"The Liberal Democrats have become the first major political party to call for long-term illegal immigrants to be offered an amnesty and the chance to gain British citizenship. As many as 600,000 people living in "a perpetual twilight world" could earn the chance to regularise their status after 10 years under policy proposals adopted at the party's conference in Brighton.

 

Both Labour and the Tories oppose the move, arguing it could encourage more migrants to head to Britain, but has been supported by trade unions and immigrant groups."

 

[ 19.09.2007, 21:31: Message edited by: Paul Kennedy ]

[observer]

The Trade Unions are desperate for "members", and the immigrant groups would say that, wouldn't they?! This Government (and the other Parties are clueless too); have totally lost it. They've destroyed the future before we've even got there.

[LarryLightweight]

Will our 'Border Polce' be staffed by immigrant workers on minimum wage seeing as to refuse them the chance to apply for these so called jobs could be seen as discriminatory !

 

Sign me up and gimme a gun...I will make Ainsdale beach safe again

[LarryLightweight]

*Border Police*

 

( Just woke up lol )

[observer]

Reality has gone even dafter: Firemen are having to learn Polish in Lancashire! CSOs are being recruited from E/Europeans elsewhere and to rub salt in the wound - it's costing Thames Valley Police ?1million per year on Interpreters, and no doubt other Local Authorities are similarly doling out OUR money on this nonesense. Sorted.

[Legion]

Agreed about the criminals, it is so obvious that the condition of residence in the country for a immigrant should be 1 conviction = deportation no return.

 

We have a problem with immigration, the trouble is that the only party to raise its head above the parapits is the national party, who have a deeper more worrying agenda than tackling this problem, but it will get to the point unless another party bites the bullet, that there will be a backlash, and the common man will vote them into power (and god help us).

 

its understandable that the MPs are too scared to bring this up as they quickly find thier own parties turning their backs on them for fear of the associated "racism" bounded to readily by the do-gooders PC brigade and media.

 

Only a couple of years back I remember some tory lord or MP suggested we should be "offering immigrants financial help or incentive to re-patriate back home"... of course the spineless conservatiove party line disowned this reasonable suggestion and MP (whome ever he was) as soon as the tabloids hinted at it being racist... the same papers who keep telling us something needs to be done about immigration.

 

rules should be.

 

1 (crime as above)1 conviction = deportation.

2 enter illegaly... exit on capture (no trial, no appeal...if the system wasnt good enough to come in with, its not good enough to go out by).

3 No skills = no entry, we have enough wasters thanks !

4 anyone planning to come here to stay , must have learned english to the point where they don't need interpreters before arrival.

5 Assylum seekers must stop at the first safe country, then seek legal immigration into a desired country (according to an agreed quota). in which case none should arrive here that we wernt expecting until europe is at war.

 

thats not racism, thats rational.

 

does anyone realy think any of that is unreasonable ?

[observer]

With New Labour trying to be Tory; New Tories trying to be Liberals, and the Lib Dems flirting with Socialism (but anti-National Interests): sadly, folk will either not bovver voting or vote BNP.

[observer]

Has the EU just passed a resolution to allow in 20million immigrants, from Africa/Asia?

[demelzadoe]

And yet I couldn't get British passports for my children. When I wanted to return to with my children to show them my homeland, I was refused British passports for them because they were born overseas to an American born father.

I could accept that if it was not for the fact that other children 2nd and 3rd generation born overseas have been issued with British passports because their paternal great grandfather had been British. So British mothers and the maternal grandparents do not have the same rights as the paternal side of the family. Why is that?

[Mary]

That is a very good question!