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330,000 this year.

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observer    552

So it goes on, migrants swarming across Europe "for a better life". Cameron & Co, and the EU; powerless or too gutless to do anything to prevent it. Well, folk will have one last chance in the referendum, to call a halt.

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Gary    94

Why would we want to stop hard working people making a home here?

When the Americans came here in the 1940s it literally put Warrington on the map!

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observer    552

Hard working? Where's that one come from Gaz? The question is purely about numbers, and whether we're getting tax-payers or tax-consumers. On low incomes and with families, it would seem the latter to be the case. There are perfectly legal channels for folk to apply for a visa to work in the UK or the EU, which allows the host country ample opportunity to choose the skills it requires for it's economic benefit. So we shouldn't have to cater for an uninvited swarm entering illegally from Africa and Asia. Don't think the Yanks came here as immigrants either, but as much needed guests on a short stay.

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Dizzy    300

Why would we want to stop hard working people making a home here?

It's gone way beyond just the question of letting some hardworking workers in though Gary. If 330,000 have already come over this year alone

(presumably not counting all the ones we don't know about) that's one heck of a lot of people to house. Not to mention that we have a heck of

a lot of our own people from school leavers right up who are desperate for decent jobs, or any job at all in some cases, but there's simply not enough to go round.

 

Surely our little island can't go on accepting all these people from other countries, sooner or later we will be full to overflowing.

 

When the Americans came here in the 1940s it literally put Warrington on the map!

Warrington was on the map well before the 1940's :roll:

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observer    552

Actually Diz, 330,000 is the net figure, after deducting indigenous folk leaving the country; so the actual influx of "foreigners" is much higher.

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Eagle    34

Actually Diz, 330,000 is the net figure, after deducting indigenous folk leaving the country; so the actual influx of "foreigners" is much higher.

What about the number of "foreigners" leaving the country?  I know it doesn't suit your dogma but there must be some?

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Bill    103

According to the figures, only 4% are claiming refugee status while the rest are simply seeking a better standard of life.

I've got no issues with genuine refugees that fear for their life but those simply seeking a better standard of living at our expense should be restricted.

I can't see why we allow people to come here to work at minimum wage while we as tax payers have to stump up to pay the British workers to sit on their backsides.

As long as we have a welfare system that pays better than going out to work for a minimum wage then this situation is going to continue.

And to those that argue that the migrants contribute to the economy, please tell me how so if they're receiving a minimum way and paying virtually no tax.

 

 

Bill :) 

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Robbo    82

Do we have a welfare system that pays better than going out to work ?????

 

A 25-35 year old living in a one bedroom flat would get £513 per month that figure includes his or her rent/ council tax/ water rates/ energy bills and food. I'm not sure any job pays less than that per month.

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Davy51    236

And all the while that the more prosperous states in Europe are left to pick up the bill, all our poorer but wiser Euro partners are happy just to let these people pass through their countries without taking them in. The main problem is that we have heard nothing from the UN about the migrant crisis & even more surprising what are the UN as a body doing about the crises in various middle eastern countries that are causing all these problems with refugees. There are many arab & muslim nations represented at the UN who should be at least trying to bring peace to these countries & offering advice & help in ridding the world of the IS terrorists which in part are apparently funded by some of the tribes of the region. It is too easy for these oligarchs to sit in their ivory towers knowing their hands are holding the oil supply to the west ,while buying £billions of arms & other goods in return.Maybe if the price of oil does go through the floor it will give a wake up call to the Gulf States.

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Primedius    4

Robbo is right. Individually the payments from Universal Credit are crap, it's only single women with loads of kids that may seem to buck the trend, and it's these people who should be sanctioned.

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Gary    94

I can't see why we allow people to come here to work at minimum wage while we as tax payers have to stump up to pay the British workers to sit on their backsides.

As long as we have a welfare system that pays better than going out to work for a minimum wage then this situation is going to continue.

 

 

 

Bill :)

Unfortunately there are significant numbers of people who appear to be more than happy sitting on their backsides - if we had near full employment there wouldn't be any jobs left for immigrants.

During a recent trip to London the hotel we visited and bars and restaurants we visited all employed people from overseas.

The doorways with cardboard boxes were full of the "locals." As a nation we have to work out why people would rather sleep rough in a doorway than get up and knock on the door of a local bar or restaurant and seek a proper living. yes i know some of them will have personal horror stories about why they fell out off the ladder - usually following a family bust up - but more needs to be done to get them back on the ladder.

From personal experience if a guy can travel from eastern Europe with just a few pound in his pocket, find himself university education and hold down a near full-time job to finance his living, without taking anything from the state, there must be plenty of opportunity out there.

Too many people in this country lack motivation!

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Robbo    82

You need a permanent place of residence and a bank account to get Universal credit so how would an illegal immigrant get it?

 

As for sitting on your backside any benefits claimant has to prove that they are actively looking for work for at least 35 hours per week. They have to attend an interview weekly and sign up to Universal Job match.

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Davy51    236

Unfortunately, successive culture changes & successive governments have created a British attitude that demands everything at once & if a job pays less than the so called minimum wage then it is no good asking a British person to take it....that is why foreigners are taking these substandard jobs because they are being offered a fortune compared to their employment prospects in their own countries.

 

Also the government have created a system where many people on benefit are really on their uppers & it is no good asking these people to pay public transport costs or buy a car to get to work because they probably can't afford to do either,considering many jobs on offer are miles away . There are no longer jobs on your doorstep within walking distance,like there used to be for people in our age group.

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Davy51    236

71 people found dead in the back of van,suffocated & thought to be Syrian refugees....people drowning from relying on makeshift boats.....that is desperation !

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Robbo    82

The benefits system has changed considerably. Anyone under 35 living on there own can no longer claim single occupancy allowance. Anyone newly unemployed used to get their first 13 weeks rent paid in full, not any more. Council tax was paid in full, not any more.

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observer    552

Think the posts have brought out the complexity and range of the problem: however getting back to our uninvited guests, travelling from Asia and Africa, all the way through Europe to the UK. We're seeing a total inability of EU Governments to cope, to adopt a decisive and organised system of returning these migrants to their points of origin. In fact worse, we have Naval vessels actually ferrying them into Italy, rather than back to Libya. What is clear, is that even if we had a Government prepared to adopt decisive repatriation policies, the EU and ECHR wouldn't allow it. So, if you want resolution, we need to exit them both.

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Davy51    236

When,since the US nearly accidentally backed Al Qaeda, have we heard any single or consortium of governments talk about sorting out the problems that these rogue & lawless states are causing. That is where the solution to this particular problem lies.

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observer    552

Not quite Dave: yes, the problems in Syria have displaced many, who could be classed as genuine refugees, who should be applying for asylum in the first safe country they flee to (IE Turkey or Jordan). The huge majority are from Afghanistan, Pakistan, East & West Africa, and even some from Viet Nam. None are fleeing wars or even poverty; as they clearly have the money to pay traffickers $1,000 a pop to get them through each leg of their journey. The problem lies in their knowledge, through the media, that "a better life" is possible in N/Europe and information received from relatives who have formed a bridgehead in Europe. If they were physically deported back, as soon as the are caught; the message would gradually go out, that their journey is futile; as indeed as occurred with the Australian response.

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Lt Kije    101

Those Countries that are the first safe Country Obs, are swamped as you know, and are getting little help or non at all from most Northern European States, and as many are now realising they got stitched in the Dublin agreement, only Germany has been honest enough to realise this, and has abandoned it, How can you expect Greece who have no money to cope with the influx, its impossible, so instead of coming out with your crap racist dogma, propose a solution, that works both long and short term for all Countries involved.

Many are coming from Libya, it was the UK along with other Countries that through out Gaddafi and then got out to quick and left a mess, same in Iraq and Afganistan, So the UK is partly responsible for the mess and the refugee situation, We should have left all those Countries stable!!!!!

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Davy51    236

Seems to me to be drastic action to drag families all the way through dangerous situations if you are not fleeing a tyrannical regime or brutal organisation just to get to a rich country. The civilised world needs to intervene & restore stability & order to these countries so the people don't have to leave through fear.

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observer    552

Kyje:Turkey is a larger land mass than the UK with ample room to house the refugees. Of course Turkey, Jordan etc should receive funding to provide the camps, so the UN should be getting it organised.  Oh, so the Dublin Agreement (international law) doesn't suit your bleeding heart ideals, so you now call it a stitch up; sorry but that the law. I don't "expect Greece (or Italy) to cope with the influx"; I expect UN and EU funding for them to return these migrants to Turkey or Libya. I actually concur with your point re Gadaffi and the other Dictators, thanks to Bliar and co, they destroyed the only people who were keeping the genie in the bottle. I've proposed a solution, umpteen times IE: repatriate the lot as soon as they are caught, the combined Air Forces of EU States can provide the transport; and have the EU Naval forces take recued migrants back to Libya. Just keep catching them and sending them back, until it will finally dawn on migrants that their journey is futile, just as has occurred with the Australian response.

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Lt Kije    101

Dublin agreement does not work, at least Germany has the balls to admit it, if it did work we would not be in the mess we are in, We do not give enough money to Greese and the other Countries to help them out, as usual we want everything on the cheap, if you want solutions its going to cost, when the Dublin agreement was signed know one could dream of the numbers, and that Countries on the front line, you know the ones, the ones you would have us hide behind, would not be able to cope, We are partly responsible for the mess, we should be partly responsible for the clean up. The one big lessen to learn is leave evil dictators in place because if you topple them what comes after is worse, they kill their own population for a reason, to keep in check the dipsticks that would replace them, i.e. I.S, we should be arming Assad!!!!!!!!, as he is the better option.

 

Better the devil you know!!!!!!

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observer    552

Ironically I agree with the latter part of your post re: dictators; but that's water under the bridge; we are where we are. Where we are is that a huge number of mainly economic migrants are heading for "a better life" in Europe, without any reason other than they WANT a better life. Sorry, but life's a lottery and so is where your born. There are perfectly legal and civilised ways to enter our Country, by application for a visa. The Dublin Convention is perfectly viable, IF national Governments stick to it and enforce it. The problem is, Turkey is turning a blind eye to refugees moving to Europe, rather than forcing them to remain in refugee camps. The crazy nonsense of rescuing migrants and then completing their journey to Italy; defeats any notion of logic. Logic dictates that migrants should be returned to Libya and Turkey - SORTED. Further up the chain, in Hungary, Austria etc; illegal migrants should be put on Air Force transports back to their home country or the next nearest safe country - SORTED. Likewise, those in France and the UK, all flown home as soon as they are caught.

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algy    301

What about the number of "foreigners" leaving the country?  I know it doesn't suit your dogma but there must be some?

I'm sure there must be Eagle however we appear to be doing our damndest to get them back, if they leave for whatever reason, let 'em go, I say!

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