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Forgive and forget ?

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P J    159

And your evidence to support the below accusations is?

 

 

...... think the "bandwagon" has more to do with compen  Asp !

 

 

The nail on the head sounds right Obs.

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Robbo    82

If the video was the only evidence it would be laughed out of court because the 'abused' certainly seemed to enjoy it at the time.

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P J    159
If the video was the only evidence it would be laughed out of court because the 'abused' certainly seemed to enjoy it at the time.

Ffs

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observer    552

Evidence?  The bandwagon was created by the media (there for all to see), when suddenly after 40 odd years of silence, everyone and his dog started jumping on it, no doubt for a possible claim; which in the case of NHS Trusts will be funded by the tax-payer.

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P J    159
Evidence?  The bandwagon was created by the media (there for all to see), when suddenly after 40 odd years of silence, everyone and his dog started jumping on it, no doubt for a possible claim; which in the case of NHS Trusts will be funded by the tax-payer.

Right so no evidence , just your supposition that the victims of child sex abuse are only interested in money and that all the professionals, witnesses, family members and accusers of Savile are all liars .  Did it ever occur to you that once some came forth and it was publicised in the media and on TV that others then found the courage to also come forward and speak out?  There were also many who  did mention the abuse but were either not believed (like you seem to be doing) or a blind eye was turned as the predator abusing them was a public figure with a lot of control over the very people the abused complained to.   Your defence of a known abuser is sickening to me.

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observer    552

Not "defending" anyone; merely trying to apply some balance to a subject that has gone off at an hysterical tangent; to the point, where parents are scared to let their kids play out normally, but instead retreat to their bedrooms where they risk being groomed on their PCs.  As for "courage", that would be reporting alleged incidents when they occurred, not waiting 40 plus years to jump on a bandwagon.

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P J    159

You have NEVER been balanced.

 

Children, already traumatised were terrified to tell anyone what had happened.  These predators manipulate and threaten their victims in order to keep them quiet.  Those brave kids who were courageous enough to ask for help and report the vile abuse were let down by people too afraid to rock the boat and threaten their own careers. Cowardly people prepared to turn a blind eye to a child molester rather than risk the sack. Such was the influence Savile enjoyed.

 

As a parent I am not afraid to let my children play out, they do so regularly, in fact my girls are outside playing tennis as I type.   You just regurgitate Daily Mail crap when you try to blame the victims for the crime, that's not how it works.  Savile was molesting children, vulnerable adults and sick patients well into the 90's and it is only his death that stopped him being unmasked as the fiend he was.  Had he ever been dragged before a judge, as he should have been, there is no doubt as to what the outcome would be.  You do seem to try to protect the interests and reputation of these monsters ,  I really do wonder why????

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observer    552

Nope - but I won't be told by the PC thought police to join a mob.  Couldn't care less about JS (he's dead) or any of those proven to have committed crimes; by all means throw away the key; but don't be asking me to jump on your hysterical bandwagon either.

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P J    159

No bandwagon and no hysterics, other than your bizarre decision to blame the victims rather than the abuser.  You are probably very similar in attitude to the cowards who turned a blind eye to Saviles atrocities.  People probably used very similar reasoning as you  to excuse their ignorance and neglect of trust and duty.  

 

 

PS.  There are no thought police, PC or otherwise.  They don't exist.  I sometimes wish they did and nonces and their defenders could be brought to book before they destroyed the lives of innocent children.

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observer    552

Nope - a coward is someone who bends to the will of folk like you; fortunately I take pleasure in doing the opposite !   :lol:

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P J    159

what a stupid and cowardly capitulation.  Tell you what, I will proudly condemn child molesters, you carry on proudly defending and/or excusing them.

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asperity    271

An impressive list of allegations PJ, but that's all they are - allegations. I refuse to believe that JS was so powerful that the tabloid newspapers of the time wouldn't have been all over any whiff of a scandal like that. And as for nurses keeping it quiet, I went out with a few nurses in the 70s and they were anything but shy of saying what they thought believe me! There are real victims of sexual abuse but they aren't being helped in any way by this over-hyped hysteria. Show me some real eveidence, not hearsay and made up stories of fantasists and fortune seekers.

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P J    159

Asperity, so the FINDINGS of the inquiries carried out by the many National Health Trusts, Police Forces and the CPS are meaningless when compared to your recollection of the whistleblowing nature of some nurse you went out with 40 years ago?  Great logic.  So glad you didn't resort to pathetic anecdotal nonsense

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asperity    271

The FINDINGS of these enquiries are that hundreds of people have made allegations against a man who, very conveniently, died before they decided to make said allegations. And still no solid evidence. Carry on digging PJ.

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Bazj    498
The FINDINGS of these enquiries are that hundreds of people have made allegations against a man who, very conveniently, died before they decided to make said allegations. And still no solid evidence. Carry on digging PJ.

 

But many DID make allegations against Savile....unfortunately they were not believed and treated like the victims they were. The truth was brushed under the carpet by nonce apologists and it was the victims of Savile who were made to feel like the guilty parties 

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P J    159

The FINDINGS did exactly that, they found that Savile was a prolific and disgusting serial abuser.   Your devotion to this monster is very touching Asperity and I can see that it is hard for you to accept but Jimmy Savile was a nonce.

 

The results of the investigations were made public by Hunt on 26 June 2014. The report concluded that Savile sexually assaulted victims in NHS hospitals over several decades. At Leeds General Infirmary, 60 people, including both staff and patients, stated that they had been abused by Savile, with their ages ranging from 5 to 75. It reported a number of organisational failures which had allowed him to continue unchallenged. Hunt apologised to the victims of the assaults, and said that the findings "will shake our country to the core"

It was reported that Savile had boasted to nurses and other staff that he performed sex acts on the bodies of recently deceased persons in the mortuary of Leeds General Hospital and claimed to have removed glass eyes from corpses and made them into rings. The report says "We have no way of proving Savile's claims that he interfered with the bodies of the deceased patients in the mortuary in this way" but that Savile did have unsupervised access to the mortuary.

A separate report on Savile's activities at Stoke Mandeville Hospital, prepared by independent investigator Dr Androulla Johnstone and published on 26 February 2015, found that he had sexually abused more than 50 people there, including staff, patients and visitors. One was an 8-year-old child. Savile had full access to all parts of the hospital. The report stated that it was widely known at the hospital that Savile was a "sex pest", and that 10 complaints had been made at the time, but no action was taken.

Also published on 26 February 2015 was Kate Lampard's report into lessons to be learned from the health service's handling of the Savile scandal. She concluded that:

 

 

North Yorkshire Police report[edit]

On 18 December 2014, North Yorkshire Police published a report of an internal inquiry into its actions. The inquiry, termed Operation Hibiscus, found no evidence of misconduct by officers, but also concluded that opportunities had been missed to prosecute both Savile and Peter Jaconelli, a former mayor of Scarborough who died in 1999, for child sex abuse. The report stated that 32 allegations had been made against Jaconelli, and five against Savile. Jaconelli was stripped of civic honours earlier in 2014 after allegations against him were first published. The Assistant Chief Constable of North Yorkshire Police, Paul Kennedy, said that the report showed that there would have been sufficient evidence for the Crown Prosecution Service to consider criminal charges against both Savile and Jaconelli if they were still alive

 

 

On 24 October 2012, the Crown Prosecution Service said the Director of Public ProsecutionsKeir Starmer, would review the service's decisions not to prosecute Savile in 2009, in relation to four claims against him for sexual abuse dating back to the 1970s. The report, prepared by the principal legal advisor to the DPP, Alison Levitt QC, was published on 11 January 2013. It found that, if police and prosecutors had taken a different approach towards the allegations, prosecutions could have been possible in relation to three of the claims.[Keir Starmer apologised for the shortcomings of the CPS and criticised two police forces for taking an "unjustifiably cautious" approach.

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asperity    271

I don't have any "devotion" to JS, but I do believe in truth and justice and in this case I believe both are being abused by unscrupulous people in the interest of making a fast buck from the estate of someone who cannot defend himself. If any "victims" were disbelieved at the time then that is a separate matter and should be dealt with accordingly. However the truth is not best served by the authorities declaring that he was guilty of everything alleged and deciding just to believe each and every allegation without any investigation. And don't forget that, guilty or innocent, JS is dead, deceased, no longer here, and the people who are going to pick up the tab for paying off every fly by night with a good tale to tell are the taxpayers. You and me. Chew that over and tell me it's a price worth paying.

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P J    159

So you have decided that the people who have come forward are all lying and unscrupulous and interested only in making money?  You base this assumption on what evidence?  You go on about justice then condemn people as liars as their situation doesn't sit well with you preconceptions with nothing to go on but what you want to be true.  There have been investigations by many bodies into Saviles heinous actions and all of them came to the same conclusion, he was a nonce who dodged jail only because he died.  The relevant bodies deservedly pay out compensation if they are negligent including Saviles rather modest estate.  It's what we call justice.  

 

I will make my opinion of Savile from the evidence and findings of the numerous bodies inquiries, you carry on basing your defence of this sicko on the fact that you once knew a nurse 40 or so years back and you assume that she would have spoken out.  Priceless, just like justice should be.

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asperity    271

I am not defending anybody, but I have yet to see any concrete evidence despite all the reports from these august bodies. They all set out with the assumption of guilt and that the "victim" must be believed despite lack of evidence. The next time you hear about a cancer sufferer being denied life saving treatment because the NHS can't afford it, then consider the millions that have been wasted by them investigating all the allegations and the further millions paid out in compensation on the word of "victims". That might give you pause for thought.

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P J    159

What a pathetic attempt to justify your belief that all the victims of Saviles evil acts are liars and that he was innocent. These August bodies didn't just decide that Savile was guilty, they assessed all the testimony and evidence. You on the other hand have decided that hundreds and hundreds of people are lying and that is killing cancer sufferers. Don't try the emotional crowbar on me Asperity, given your willingness to declare abuse victims liars I can see you are lacking compassion

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asperity    271

There you go again PJ trying to twist what I actually said. The truth of the matter is that no-one knows whether he is/was guilty of the crimes he is alleged to have commited because they haven't been tested in a court of law. All we have are hundreds of allegations which may or not be true. Again these allegations are not "evidence". The mere fact that the allegations concerning abuse that may or not have been carried out on NHS property have had to be investigated by the NHS has already cost us millions, and that is before they start doling out millions more in compensation. Given your willingness to put the desire for monetary compensation by people who may or not be telling the truth about whether they were indeed victims of abuse by JS, or just good liars, then it is you that lack compassion for people who are really suffering - NHS patients. Can money really compensate real victims of real sexual abuse? And paying compensation isn't hurting JS, just the charities that would have benefitted from the money in the trust funds he left which has now been taken by the legal profession to fill their own coffers. So in addition to paying for the investigations and the compensation, the NHS will also have to fund the projects that the charitable trusts were set up for. Well done all concerned is all I can say.

 

And still no answer as to why none of these "victims" sold their story to any of the tabloids while JS was still alive? The News of the Screws would have gone to town!!

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P J    159

They did tell their story Asperity and all the sanctimonious claptrap in the world will not alter the fact that he was a sexual predator.    

 

On 10 occasions, vulnerable patients complained about his sexual abuse to staff, their parents and to teachers, but they were either not believed or ignored, the report said. A supervisor tried to raise concerns to higher management but was reprimanded, patients who complained to nurses were told to stay silent, and one victim who told his headteacher was laughed at. 

Kate Lampard, who carried out an independent review of Savile’s activities across the NHS, said in her report, also published on Thursday: “Savile’s status and influence … was enhanced by the endorsement and encouragement he received from politicians, senior civil servants and NHS managers. His access within NHShospitals gave Savile the opportunity to commit sexual abuses on a grand scale for nearly 50 years.”

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P J    159

Remember that bloke in Cumbria who killed 12 people and injured 11 more with his gun?  Well as he turned the gun on himself he never had to face court.  Does this, in your skewed logic, make him any less guilty?  

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