Forgive and forget ?

[Bazj]

Davy... the culture of some ethnic minorities allows them to marry kids as young as 9 I believe but hopefully for the majority over here that idea is as foreign as the lands they came from. Unfortunately due to the lack of integration into the wider community and their fondness for creating an almost ghetto style existence, the ones who wished to perpetrate these crimes found it much easier to cover up.

 

For the likes of Savile and Cyril Smith etc. If it was just the odd one or two accusations most of us would indeed be more likely to take them with a pinch of salt. However the numbers of people, the locations, the frequencies and the fact that so many others are now not only accusing Savile especially but coming out and telling of how their past accusations and suspicions against them were covered up.

 

Listen to the John Lydon interview on youtube where he mentions Savile and what he knows about him. Listen to the Frank Skinner bit on fantasy football where he explains why they dropped a section they used to do on their show where they lampooned Savile and the reasons they had to stop.

 

What you have to understand is the Savile was a massively influential bloke... he raised millions and millions for charity and was a pillar of the BBC and society in general. He made kids dreams come true on Jim'll Fix It.... he helped kids with cancer...he could do no wrong and anyone who dared speak out against him was immediately shot down and covered up. In the case of fellow celebrities accusing him, if they tried too hard, their careers would have been over.... this man was a god .... but ultimately he was a paedophile nothing more...nothing less

[Freeborn John]

The same could be said about the late Cyril Smith MP, the image presented by the media to the public was of a good natured, honest, larger than life politician, when in reality 'Good old Cyril' was a sadistic predatory paedophile who was time and again caught abusing young lads...and let off under orders from 'them upstairs'.

You have to wonder at the calibre of the people running this country.

[Lt Kije]

I agree with apserity 

[Freeborn John]

I agree with apserity 

You would. But isn't tackling the problem of nonces in high places more important than you getting your self righteous thrill? 

[asperity]

Baz and PJ, if the evidence against JS is so overwhelming, why hasn't it been properly aired in the public arena? Instead we have all sorts of people coming out with innuendo and rumours now that the guy is no longer here to defend himself. As I said in a previous post hospitals all over the country have investigated the numerous claims made against him and none of them have come up with any creditable evidence, all at a cost that the NHS can ill afford. Some of the accusations are so improbable they would be laughed out of court, if they ever got past the CPS. As for him being such an influential man - a disc jockey who had a tv programme influential? Pull the other one. And as for all the money he made for charity, well a large proportion of it is disappearing into the pockets of the legal profession. If there are real victims then let them come forward with their evidence and let that evidence be judged properly, not in tabloid rags.

[Bazj]

Asperity & Kije.... I suppose you think Fred West wasn't a rapist or a murderer too?

[asperity]

Fred and Rose were caught red handed with all the evidence of their evil in their house. My point is that, until someone, anyone, can come up with any solid evidence about the supposed evils of JS then he cannot be condemned. So come on all of you who are so convinced of his guilt, show us some solid evidence. And I mean solid evidence, not the vague recollection of some great granny that JS had patted her bum in 1975 when she was a 16 year old on TOTP!!

[observer]

Seems a 25yo has been arrested in Wigan, for leading a gang of vigilantes and assaulting two alleged peadophiles.

[Bazj]

I notice a couple of people have indicated they don't like me saying that JS hasn't been tried and found guilty of anything, but aren't prepared to say why they don't like it. Strange.

 

Fred and Rose were caught red handed with all the evidence of their evil in their house. My point is that, until someone, anyone, can come up with any solid evidence about the supposed evils of JS then he cannot be condemned. So come on all of you who are so convinced of his guilt, show us some solid evidence. And I mean solid evidence, not the vague recollection of some great granny that JS had patted her bum in 1975 when she was a 16 year old on TOTP!!

 

Fred West was never found guilty in a court of Law either... the evidence against him was never proven and in fact was used against his wife at her trial. There were of course people who came out and said things against him in various TV programmes but never aired before a court...

 

Savile is as guilty as Fred West in that case

[observer]

Allegations that a man was interfering with his own kids, as part of a cult; have been dismissed by a judge. The allegation came from his ex-wife, who presumably wants full custody. Will she be charged with perjury?

[P J]

If every case where someone is found not guilty leads to the prosecution witnesses being tried for perjury the rule of law will be a complete shambles.  As has been said Savile , if alive , would be in court facing hundreds of charges from individuals, organisations etc.  There is more than enough evidence to have sent him down for ever as he deserved but he died before it all came out,  a lot of it due to the fact that people turned a blind eye to the pic of filth's actions.  There is even video evidence of him groping a minor on TOTP ffs.  I can't believe anyone would be fighting this predatory sex attackers corner on here.

[observer]

Where a false and malicious complaint is made, it would appear just to prosecute the complainant.

[P J]

And who decides that?  Surely the CPS decided the case was worthy of trial?

[P J]

Should every person found guilty of a crime who pleaded innocent be charged and sentenced for perjury too?  Stupid idea Observer.  Best just to drop it I think.

[observer]

The Police submit a case to the CPS, IF they think there is a case to answer.  If they (during their investigation) discover that the allegations are false; they can and have prosecuted for perjury; so not my idea, just current (but seemingly rare) practise.

[asperity]

PJ, would you care to show some of this evidence that you claim would have sent him down forever?

 

Baz, Fred West hanged himself in prison before his case came to court. Not quite the same as JS who died before all the allegations started. Fred West also hadn't left several millions in trust funds for the legal profession to plunder.

 

I have seen plenty of evidence that JS wasn't anywhere near places where offences are alleged to have taken place at the time. The same can be said about some of the allegations against Rolf Harris by the way, but that was glossed over in the interests of locking him up.

[Bazj]

Asp.... there were people who stated that Ronnie and Reggie Kray weren't anywhere near the places where they were supposed to have killed their 2 victims (they were only ever convicted of one murder each but both served over 30 years inside)

 

Savile is/was guilty just as Fred West was and just as Rolf Harris was/is

 

Making apologies for filth like that is just beyond belief

[asperity]

Again Baz, you are acting as judge, jury and executioner and yet you have failed to supply a single piece of solid evidence that what you say is true. Okay I can understand that you didn't like the man, I wasn't a fan myself, but you cannot condemn him on the say so of a bunch of fortune hunters. Look for the evidence and when you can produce it you will convince me of his guilt. You might want to take a look at the evidence presented against Rolf Harris as well, pretty dodgy some of it.

 

By the way where have I made "apologies" for anyone?

[P J]

You just live in your dream world where Jimmy Savile is a pillar of the community and never , ever did anything wrong,  if you don't want to recognise what a nonce he was , you never will , for which I am sure there is good reason.

[asperity]

Where have I said that he was a pillar of the community who never did anything wrong? All I'm asking is for you, and others like you, who are so willing to condemn him on the say so of the tabloids, to show me some solid evidence that any of what you alledge is actually true. For some reason you are unwilling to do this and instead try and condemn me as some kind of deluded apologist. I'll say again that I was never a fan of JS, I thought he was too OTT for my tastes. But I find it strange that so many people are happy to jump on the bandwagon on the strength of their own dislike of the man.

[observer]

...... think the "bandwagon" has more to do with compen  Asp !

[asperity]

The nail on the head sounds right Obs.

[P J]

Findings from an inquiry by Health Trusts.

 

The results of the investigations were made public by Hunt on 26 June 2014. The report concluded that Savile sexually assaulted victims in NHS hospitals over several decades. At Leeds General Infirmary, 60 people, including both staff and patients, stated that they had been abused by Savile, with their ages ranging from 5 to 75. It reported a number of organisational failures which had allowed him to continue unchallenged. Hunt apologised to the victims of the assaults, and said that the findings "will shake our country to the core"

It was reported that Savile had boasted to nurses and other staff that he performed sex acts on the bodies of recently deceased persons in the mortuary of Leeds General Hospital and claimed to have removed glass eyes from corpses and made them into rings. The report says "We have no way of proving Savile's claims that he interfered with the bodies of the deceased patients in the mortuary in this way" but that Savile did have unsupervised access to the mortuary.

A separate report on Savile's activities at Stoke Mandeville Hospital, prepared by independent investigator Dr Androulla Johnstone and published on 26 February 2015, found that he had sexually abused more than 50 people there, including staff, patients and visitors. One was an 8-year-old child. Savile had full access to all parts of the hospital. The report stated that it was widely known at the hospital that Savile was a "sex pest", and that 10 complaints had been made at the time, but no action was taken.

Also published on 26 February 2015 was Kate Lampard's report into lessons to be learned from the health service's handling of the Savile scandal. She concluded that:

"Savile was a highly unusual personality whose lifestyle, behaviour and offending patterns were equally unusual. As a result of his celebrity, his volunteering, and his fundraising he had exceptional access to a number of NHS hospitals and took the opportunities that that access gave him to abuse patients, staff and others on a remarkable scale. Savile’s celebrity and his roles as a volunteer and fundraiser also gave him power and influence within NHS hospitals which meant that his behaviour, which was often evidently inappropriate, was not challenged as it should have been. Savile’s ability to continue to pursue his activities without effective challenge was aided by fragmented hospital management arrangements; social attitudes of the times, including reticence in reporting and accepting reports of sexual harassment and abuse, and greater deference than today towards those in positions of influence and power; and less bold and intrusive media reporting. While it might be tempting to dismiss the Savile case as wholly exceptional, a unique result of a perfect storm of circumstances, the evidence we have gathered indicates that there are many elements of the Savile story that could be repeated in future. There is always a risk of the abuse, including sexual abuse, of people in hospitals. There will always be people who seek to gain undue influence and power within public institutions including in hospitals. And society and individuals continue to have a weakness for celebrities. Hospital organisations need to be aware of the risks posed by these matters and manage them appropriately."

[P J]

North Yorkshire Police report[edit]

On 18 December 2014, North Yorkshire Police published a report of an internal inquiry into its actions. The inquiry, termed Operation Hibiscus, found no evidence of misconduct by officers, but also concluded that opportunities had been missed to prosecute both Savile and Peter Jaconelli, a former mayor of Scarborough who died in 1999, for child sex abuse. The report stated that 32 allegations had been made against Jaconelli, and five against Savile. Jaconelli was stripped of civic honours earlier in 2014 after allegations against him were first published. The Assistant Chief Constable of North Yorkshire Police, Paul Kennedy, said that the report showed that there would have been sufficient evidence for the Crown Prosecution Service to consider criminal charges against both Savile and Jaconelli if they were still alive

[P J]

On 24 October 2012, the Crown Prosecution Service said the Director of Public Prosecutions, Keir Starmer, would review the service's decisions not to prosecute Savile in 2009, in relation to four claims against him for sexual abuse dating back to the 1970s. The report, prepared by the principal legal advisor to the DPP, Alison Levitt QC, was published on 11 January 2013. It found that, if police and prosecutors had taken a different approach towards the allegations, prosecutions could have been possible in relation to three of the claims.^[Keir Starmer apologised for the shortcomings of the CPS and criticised two police forces for taking an "unjustifiably cautious" approach.