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Do we really want them back?

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Crikey, I'd not read this thread until now (well, it presents as yet another obs' thread about them immigruntz, so forgive me).

 

Top marks all round though, WWW at its absolute best.

 

Anyway, I think Grace Dent (I love Grace Dent) sums up most of what's been said on here in this:

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/if-teenage-girls-want-to-join-isis-in-the-face-of-all-its-atrocities-then-they-should-leave-and-never-return-10065516.html

 

Though, thankfully, she doesn't mention wet lettuces.

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Now it's not just a  PJ vs Sha battle I've braved dipping my toe back in the waters and posting as I didn't want to get caught in the crossfire before B) 

Good link Fugs and yes she does sum it up well and certainly made me think again too. 

Must admit I hadn't got a clue what the young friend of theirs was on about in the video though other than a bit about the missing girls always going to their revision classes and that they were always determined to do something or other (did she mean at something school or just a determination to do whatever they wanted in anything including running off to join ISIS ?    

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I don't think this hullabaloo in the media is really about these three muppets.

There are hundreds of those people out there, some with serious blood on their hands, I think it's about getting them all back into the UK with as little fuss as possible from the British public by painting them as harmless, not very bright kids who were mislead.

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.....and well known to MI5 for years before he trundled off to Syria and joined the islamic state.  Well done MI5...

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Apparently ,there was a comment made by an American general yesterday along the lines of " while the British are fannying about with surveillance & legal arguments the Yanks are getting stuck in & taking out these mo fos ".

What we are up against in Britain though is potentially more serious than anything the IRA produced &  a major confrontation looks to be inevitable ,but i wonder if ,after all the recent defence cuts , can we really expect our much reduced forces bolstered by part timers to be up to the task.

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Think you need to differentiate between foreign and domestic terrorism Dave.  The Islamic State provides an ideal assembly point for every wannabe jihadist round the globe, it also provides a contained area, where they can be systematically degraded by western air power and Kurdish, Iraqi & Syrian forces.  The temptation of course is to commit our own ground troops, and this is just what IS want, so they can kill western soldiers. Those nutters that are prevented from reaching IS, will no doubt resort to commiting atrocities in their home countries, like the Lee Rigby attack. Because such attacks tend to be "lone wolf", it's difficult for the security forces to prevent them all.  So, let them go; hopefully to be sent to paradise by the USAF; but make sure none return to the UK to act out their fantasies here..

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But they are fanning out into Libya & other African countries bordering the Med ,countries within easy striking distance of Europe. I can't imagine it to be very difficult for terrorists to hitch a ride on refugee ships & sneak into any western country of their choice through the back door.

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why would they sneak out of Britain in order to get on a boat and sneak back in.  Get a grip man 

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why would they sneak out of Britain in order to get on a boat and sneak back in.  Get a grip man 

Especially since they can just fly in and out of this country for their murderfest gap year the way the rest of us go on the lash in Lanzorote...

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why would they sneak out of Britain in order to get on a boat and sneak back in.  Get a grip man 

I read Davy's post as meaning terrorists or those wanting to join their evil cause and carry out atrocities can get from a point 'a' to a point 'b' anywhere in Europe or beyond, especially if they are not already know to the likes of MI5 etc, rather than meaning ones from here going over and back again.

 

I must admit I do agree with Davy and it is inevitable and very worrying that we will be targeted and we are like sitting ducks on our little tiny island especially with the cuts in our forces and a lot of what we do have being already on patrols far far away :(  I wonder how quickly they could get them back here if needed ?

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The essence of guerrilla warfare is not to engage the enemy in open battle, where their superior training, equipment etc will mean certain defeat; but to blend into the population (or part of it), and attack soft targets in order to achieve a propaganda coup and weaken political resolve. EG: the Viet-cong Tet Offensive. Individuals, home grown or imported can contribute to this, and because they don't operate as a group, are difficult to detect. The fact that several Jihadi groups around the world have come out into the open and occupied territory; should make it easier for the west to systematically degrade them. Unfortunately this doesn't eradicate the idea or individual operatives; something which challenges our continuing to be an open and free society.

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As a spokesman for the IRA was once quoted ," we only have to be lucky once, the British have to be lucky every time " . It is the same with the barbarism being meted out by ISIS ....how do we identify a terrorist in our midst when he could look just like us ? Even the Palestinians are now styling themselves as  "jihadists" so is this spread of terrorism now being taken to the Israeli border. This is a significant move for a country that is struggling for the right to exist ..,has it allied itself to IS now it is describing its people as jihadists ? Is the intention to drag Israel into the conflict ? The spread of this cancer is no accident & no mark of desperation by oppressed people ,it is a well sponsored conflagration.

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Think you'll find that the majority of "jihadists" tend to be Sunni Muslims. The centre of Sunni support being Saudi Arabia and the Gulf States (our close allies !).

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Considering this mess has stemmed from the removal of Saddam Hussain from his despotic position,I would not be surprised to see Syria being invited come in from the cold & assume the part of the strong arm man of the Arab world to at least try & put the lid back on Pandora's box.

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Think we can thank a totally naïve Tony Bliar and the business interests of the Bush family, for letting the genie out of the bottle.

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...... and the latest episode in this saga, is that of a Rochdale family, seeking to enter ISIS Syria. Now they have been stopped, they'll be deported back to the UK; presumably the adults will finish up in prison and the kids in care - all at the tax-payers expense.

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If you were to take away all of your presumables there, obs, what would be your preferred way of dealing with cases like this?

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One method would be to strip them of all rights as a british citizen, remove their passports. full dna and blood tests and then if caught trying to get back to britain, ship them back to syrian border and give them twenty minutes before you start shooting at them. any human rights wallers who then argued their case should be sent with them to sort out their claim in syria at their own expense of course.Might of might be a bit extreme (so maybe allow twenty five minutes to give them a chance to get a bit further away.) :roll:

 

basically identify the ones who want to go and let them, maybe even pay for them to go on the understanding that if they ever try to come back they will be stopped and returned no arguments no appeals no detention no waiting around for months. 24 hours to sort out transport and then off they go. ater all it is their decision and i have always been told that once you have made a decision you have to live with the consequences of that decision.

 

i have heard stronger arguments than this and personally think that if you want to go and fight for a particular country against the country you live in then you should have to live in the country that you are fighting for permanently and not have the choice to return when you have had enough or want to commit acts of crime against the country you lived in previously.

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I agree with Sid - except for shipping them out if they return. As soon as DNA tests have confirmed their identity they should be shot as traitors. (or lethal injection, hanging ...whatever).

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There are too many apologists around now who are trying to label these people who go off to fight for ISIS as "victims" or somehow brainwashed.... these people come from a country where we have access to information on an incredible scale... if they want to see what it is really like to live in Syria or to be a victim of the brutalities and monstrosities that IS and the other Islamic nutjobs they only have to look and they can find it in minutes

 

With the exception of the 1 and 2 year olds, these people have made a concious decision to go there and they should be allowed to stay there....forever. Who on earth would be stupid enough to ever sanction allowing them back into mainstream society in Britain? These are folks who have rejected our way of life and our values and actively support the murder of innocents and would activelly support the murder of innocents in this country too

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