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Do we really want them back?

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Young men, now young girls; so called Jihadi Brides; heading for Syria and the Islamic State. So why is Dave and Co, getting in a froth about it?  As long as we don't let them back again, they can find their way to paradise, courtesy of the USAF & Co.

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Obs these are young girls age 15 and 16, naive and gullible and still just kids in my eyes.  The news said they are though to have been lured over there by social media and one of their friends.  I very much doubt they fully understand what is going on and the consequences of their actions.

It's a tricky one.  If they were women or men aged 30 or so then I'd say good riddance to them and never to let them back but being kids my heart is saying find them quick before they get there and bring them home to their parents and talk some sense into them.  Easier said than done though with the 'sense' and if they are determined to join or follow the terrorist way then we would be putting ourselves at risk.

Social media has a lot to answer for in cases like this and maybe more stringent checks need to be made regarding who is talking to who and about what.... ooh hang on don't they already do that ?

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These aren't kids.... these are far from kids.

 

They are people who have access to unprecedented amounts of information; information we could only have dreamed about when we were kids. Information that tells them (and us) that these monsters called ISIS are not to be courted lightly and are the most disgusting human scum that ever walked the earth. They (and us) have all seen the news and seen what these things are capable of doing to their fellow human beings and it leaves any right minded person in no doubt what ISIS are like. The only way that someone of that age would form the opinion that what ISIS do is acceptable behaviour is if EVERYONE with any influence over them or around them thinks it is acceptable

 

I for one don't buy into this whole "radicalisation" thing.... in order to influence kids of that age, the kids must have no interaction with anyone or anything that would form a contrary opinion and if they are so segregated, surely that is a failing of their parenting, their schooling and ultimately; our society in general.

 

I mean one set of parents won't allow their daughters photo to be shown, which surely must be seen as strange considering they so desperately want her to be found and returned home again.

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What we need is a 'No Like' button

 There is one... it's the little red down arrow on the right under each individual post.

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Baz your comments virtually echoed what our son (aged almost 21) said to me when he came in tonight and we were chatting about it.  You two have given me a reality check as you are right in a lot of what you say.

My head and heart were being ruled by the fact I'm a mum and that I have a niece the same age etc so was viewing it from that perspective and how I'd feel if it was a kid I knew who'd gone etc. 
 

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Good post Baz.   It might help if ALL religious education in schools was banned, and these young people could concentrate on evidenced based secular education. Interesting also, that we know the Government can't stop folk getting into the country, and it seems they're failing to stop folk getting out of the country too.

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That these children have access to the internet and information is one of the main reasons that preachers of radical views are able to indoctrinate them , especially the use of social media etc.  Its akin to sexual grooming, many parents are not aware of its going on until its too late.

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I totally agree with Baz.  These so called 'kids' are not kids. They are 15 and 16 years old young adults, they are certainly not naïve nor gullible they are A grade students- so are of reasonable intelligence and have obviously had enough access to the internet and social media sites to make it impossible that they be unaware of the horrendous crimes ISIS are committing.

They have made a conscious choice to support terrorism.

 

Their parents are blaming British Agencies, if they have a problem with what their offspring have done they should look to themselves and take some responsibility. Basic personality is set by the age of 7years  'the age of reason' and by that age a moral conscience should have been formed. People who can condone the beheading of aid workers and such like have no sound moral conscience.

 

As for their describing their daughters as 'children' (whilst pathetically holding a teddy bear for effect) this is ridiculous. 

They have brought these girls up as Muslims and under Personal Muslim Law they are allowed to marry without parental consent once they attain the age of 15 years. (How many times have we heard complaints about British Law interfering with their laws and rights with regards to arranged marriages of girls aged 15yrs? - not 'kids' then are they?)

Also, in their appeals to their daughters they have said things like "you haven't done anything wrong", "we understand that you sympathise with those suffering in Syria - you can help them from here". How are statements like these to be interpreted?

 

Other parent's of 'kids' who have come back are complaining they haven't been given enough help to de-radicalise their 'children'. Just what is it they want? Some months ago a Muslim councillor was saying that there should be govt funds made available to help the Muslim community in the prevention of radicalisation of their young people - ending his plea for funds by suggesting it would be cheaper in the long run. His attitude gave me the creeps, especially as I'd been reading about a Muslim school filtering off govt funding and sending it out to help 'the cause'.

 

Perhaps we should be wary that ISIS has particular objectives more to do with raising funds than getting wives?

If we should start ploughing money into 'de-radicalisation programmes' how could we be sure some of this would not be filtered off and redirected as has happened with the school?

Perhaps we should also be wary that once these girls are married they might gain access to Britain for their terrorist husbands?     

     

Young men running off to join ISIS has not raised much public sympathy, perhaps by having girls do it they might think it will generate more sympathy - and funds!

 

Whatever, a REALLY TOUGH APPROACH is needed.

I would suggest declaring them terrorists and traitors to their country - 30 years minimum jail sentence should they step foot on our soil again.

Or we could punish them with the same methods they use on their captives.

 

If this isn't dealt with severely enough it will escalate out of control.  

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I totally agree with Baz.  These so called 'kids' are not kids. They are 15 and 16 years old young adults, they are certainly not naïve nor gullible they are A grade students- so are of reasonable intelligence and have obviously had enough access to the internet and social media sites to make it impossible that they be unaware of the horrendous crimes ISIS are committing.

They have made a conscious choice to support terrorism.

 

Their parents are blaming British Agencies, if they have a problem with what their offspring have done they should look to themselves and take some responsibility. Basic personality is set by the age of 7years  'the age of reason' and by that age a moral conscience should have been formed. People who can condone the beheading of aid workers and such like have no sound moral conscience.

 

As for their describing their daughters as 'children' (whilst pathetically holding a teddy bear for effect) this is ridiculous. 

They have brought these girls up as Muslims and under Personal Muslim Law they are allowed to marry without parental consent once they attain the age of 15 years. (How many times have we heard complaints about British Law interfering with their laws and rights with regards to arranged marriages of girls aged 15yrs? - not 'kids' then are they?)

Also, in their appeals to their daughters they have said things like "you haven't done anything wrong", "we understand that you sympathise with those suffering in Syria - you can help them from here". How are statements like these to be interpreted?

 

Other parent's of 'kids' who have come back are complaining they haven't been given enough help to de-radicalise their 'children'. Just what is it they want? Some months ago a Muslim councillor was saying that there should be govt funds made available to help the Muslim community in the prevention of radicalisation of their young people - ending his plea for funds by suggesting it would be cheaper in the long run. His attitude gave me the creeps, especially as I'd been reading about a Muslim school filtering off govt funding and sending it out to help 'the cause'.

 

Perhaps we should be wary that ISIS has particular objectives more to do with raising funds than getting wives?

If we should start ploughing money into 'de-radicalisation programmes' how could we be sure some of this would not be filtered off and redirected as has happened with the school?

Perhaps we should also be wary that once these girls are married they might gain access to Britain for their terrorist husbands?     

     

Young men running off to join ISIS has not raised much public sympathy, perhaps by having girls do it they might think it will generate more sympathy - and funds!

 

Whatever, a REALLY TOUGH APPROACH is needed.

I would suggest declaring them terrorists and traitors to their country - 30 years minimum jail sentence should they step foot on our soil again.

Or we could punish them with the same methods they use on their captives.

 

If this isn't dealt with severely enough it will escalate out of control.  

So you are suggesting that Great Britain should burn children alive in cages in public?  What a disgusting and immoral suggestion that is. Perhaps we should start throwing people off tall buildings for being gay and assassinating children for watching a football game.  FFS

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There you go again, I think Sha was merely making a point of comparison; but don't let that get in the way of some stupid juvenile retort. Good post Sha, I would only add, that a ban on ALL religious education in schools might assist in de-programming these nut cases.

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Don't children have to be over a certain age to board flights without parental accompaniment ? Our borders really are seive like.

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There you go again, I think Sha was merely making a point of comparison.

So the bit in bold where SHA suggests treating these children the same way as Isis treat their captives , ie burning alive, beheading, throwing from buildings and shooting, is to be ignored? That's why I put it in bold so that even the likes of you should be able to see the part of the long winded post to which my reply referred. It is a disgusting and immoral suggestion and you know it.

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PJ, where did you get the idea that I was suggesting 'burning children alive in cages'?

 

The terrorists I was writing about ARE NOT CHILDREN !

The prospective Jihadi brides are - as according to their own culture -fully consenting adults. Who are planning to support, aid and abet the monstrous crimes their terrorist prospective husbands commit.

They are 15 and 16 years old and fully responsible for their own actions. In British law they would be regarded as such and for aiding and abetting murder they would be held accountable.

 

I suggested declaring them terrorists and traitors - which they are.

I suggested a minimum 30 years jail sentence should they step foot on our soil again. I stand by that too, for two reasons;

1) it would hopefully be severe enough to deter them from returning.

2) if by any chance they did come back they would be locked up safely away from society - anyone who could condone the brutal murders that have been carried out by ISIS is so evil and twisted that they couldn't possibly be rehabilitated to be safe enough to live in civilised society   

 

The suggestion, which appears to be the one that upset you the most  "we could punish them with the same methods they use on their captives".

By this I meant the death penalty. I could have been clearer in wording this but would hardly expect your hysteric reaction. Ob's seemed to have understood the gist of it ok.

 

As you didn't I will spell it out. I would propose the death penalty for those terrorists who have taken the lives of others. This wasn't aimed at the prospective Jihadi brides, but should they progress in the future to actually commit murder, then they too should bear that penalty.

When I wrote "with the same methods they use on their captives" I meant that the punishment should be lethal. I never proposed 'burning in cages' and wouldn't because it would be too horrendous for the executioner.

Beheading is ISIS's choice of execution and if it's ok for their victims should be acceptable to them but this might be regarded too barbaric for the British Public who I suspect would prefer lethal injection.

As for shooting, firing squads are generally considered acceptable in warfare. 

 

Also please note, I have previously been against capital punishment - due to the fact that innocent people have wrongly been hung. So I would remain wary of mistakes being made but as these terrorists seem to like to video their monstrous acts it should be easy to convict 'beyond ANY DOUBT'.

 

If my opinions offend your extremely sensitive sensibilities then I'm sorry for that - but not for holding such opinions which I believe are also held by many others these days. 

 

As for immoral and disgusting, If you have read any of my posts re the warfare going on in this world you will remember that I have used those words on numerous occasions to describe the various Governments (including our own) who have caused many of the present day wars through their greed.  NOT that this is any excuse for terrorists or barbarism - there are more civilised ways of solving conflict.

 

The problem is these terrorists have long departed from anything remotely resembling 'civil' and are a threat to the lives of innocent civilians.  

So it is neither immoral nor disgusting to protect ourselves from them.

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Please tell me what these schoolgirls (still children under British Law and last time I looked that was still in force in Britain)  did that warrants the death penalty? What actual crime have they committed?  Who have they killed? How did they kill them?  Where did they do it?  If you want to jail for life or as you suggest execute schoolgirls for this with absolutely no idea what they did other than be stupid enough to get on a plane to Syria after being groomed online,  then you are as bad as the terrorists you abhor so much.  Its just a pathetic and disgusting knee-jerk reaction .  Please describe for me, the methods of death penalty that Isis terrorists prefer.  Is it the ones I listed? Are you not yourself condoning the death of children no matter how you wish to kill them?

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  It might help if ALL religious education in schools was banned, 

 

 

There is no evidence three girls, thought to be heading to Syria to join Islamic State, were radicalised at school, the principal has said.

Mark Keary said pupils cannot access Twitter or Facebook on Bethnal Green Academy computers.

"Police have advised us there is no evidence radicalisation took place at the academy," he said.

Shamima Begum, Amira Abase, both 15, and Kadiza Sultana, 16, flew from London to Turkey on Tuesday.

UK police officers have gone to Turkey but their role has not been confirmed.

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A weeks holiday with Bear Grylls on Breacons Beacons could help with your priorities, perhaps even get a T-shirt for your locker. :lol:  btw. they don't need to be "radicalised at school"; the religious input merely provided the fertile soil for the nutters to exploit.

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A weeks holiday with Bear Grylls on Breacons Beacons could help with your priorities, perhaps even get a T-shirt for your locker. :lol:  

 

I think your meds wore off or you need a change of script. :wacko:  :wacko:  :wacko:

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PJ, is there any point trying to have a discussion with you if you distort what I've said? I explained clearly who I thought the death penalty was suitable for.......murderers. If those girls join ISIS and take part in any murder then yes, I think they should face the severest of consequences.

 

You insist on portraying them as innocent 'schoolgirls' who have been 'groomed' online. Think how you would have been at 15yrs, would you have been persuaded to join a gang of brutal murderers? I know I certainly wouldn't have.

 

These girls are not stupid and they will have seen all the press reports of ISIS brutality, they will have been aware of the suffering of such as the family of the aid worker who was senselessly murdered. They are not the innocent naïve little schoolgirls you portray them as, they are callous people bereft of compassion who have consciously chosen to support and join a group of evil murderers.

 

Why are politicians falling over themselves to make excuses for them?  Cameron describes them as being "duped" and says we should do everything we can to help them. Who does he think he is 'duping'?  It looks merely as though he is trying to gain favour (and votes) from the Muslim community. This stance will likely backfire as I think the majority of the Muslim Community will be both horrified and angry with these girls for their actions. 

There are hundreds of young people who go missing each year in Britain, not to join ISIS but to escape from abuse, dysfunctional families and such like but 'caring Cameron' doesn't seem to be doing much to help them! 

 

As I've said earlier, I wouldn't be surprised if ISIS had additional motives other than getting 'brides' for themselves. 

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and what crime have these schoolgirls committed, or indeed which country are they now in?  You don't like Muslims much do you?  You go on about them aiding and abetting murders and being punished as severely as possible.  You recommend or suggest using the methods of treatment that  ISIS have used on their captives. ISIS burn alive or behead their captives. ergo?

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