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Police Strike?

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observer    552

Seems this Government have upset yet another group of public sector workers, by renaging on a long standing pay agreement. :o:x

 

[ 05.12.2007, 20:33: Message edited by: observer ]

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observer    552

Seems Gordon doesn't want to honour the police pay award, despite rebellion in his own ranks; on the basis it might contribute to inflation. :roll::x

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Paul Kennedy    33

Not sure the MPs are going to get a generous increase this time...nor should they. ?60,000 + all of the extras seems perfectly reasonable. Maybe those MPs who have bought London properties with the help of the special 2nd home allowance (circa ?23,000) might like to give back any profit they make when they sell it.

 

Personally I have no problem with high salaries if they are directly linked to high performance....not just MPs but all in the State sector. Private sector is different, if pay levels are too high the companies go bust....or the jobs get exported.....unless of course you happen to be Northern Rock, in which case you in effect become a state employee....geting an above inflation pay rise.....and a bonus! :wink:

 

[ 12.12.2007, 16:33: Message edited by: Paul Kennedy ]

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observer    552

The issue is not "the money" - which has all been budgeted for by Police Authorities (and even paid out in Scotland! :wink: The issue is about honour and integrity, and the honouring of a 28 year pay award system, which this duplicitous Government have reneged on. :roll::x

 

[ 12.12.2007, 23:41: Message edited by: observer ]

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Bazj    498

Obs... the pay award and pension scheme for the Police was Maggies gift to them for helping her to destroy the miners strike!

 

 

I think the Police have got a bit of a nerve though. They work 30 years and get a bit fat pension to go out on and can still work for another 20 years in the private sector after that!

 

Maybe if they were made to work till they were 65 like most other people I'd have a bit more sympathy.

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observer    552

Baz: assuming the Police Feds "28 years" is correct; I make that agreement circ 1979; the miners strike was in 1984?! :wink: Some jobs just ain't suitable for old codgers, and require highly trained and fit young folk, presumably taking great risks - perhaps 30 years of that is enough. :roll:

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Baz you seem to be missing a few things, the police pension is a contributory pension scheme of 11%, anybody can have a private pension and the more you pay in the more you get out (Which is still taxable). Unlike the MPs who pay nothing in and get the biggest pension of all Tax free.

The police are no different than anyone else in having to wait until 65 for the state pension.

 

This is not the fist police pay agreement the government (both Conservative and Labour) have renegade on, way back in 1979, Edmund Davies was ordered to look into police pay and conditions which came about after may years of really bad pay. Some people will remember the days of the three day working week, This report was to be the last stop. No more arguing. It was a final and legal document binding on both side?s no one was to argue about, it was final. It recognised the work that police officers have to do, AND the fact that they are not allowed by law to go on strike.

This formula was worked out the police would get annual pay rises slightly above the rate of inflation. I can?t remember the formula but it is around to be found, it was linked to the cost of living. It lasted two years before the government took it back to the courts and got it changed (downwards, because the cost of living had risen) it has been like that every year since protracted arguments for months. The government has always tried to renege on any agreement legal or otherwise, so understandably the police are a bit mifft. Scotland, Isle of Man, and other non home office forces are getting this rise.

 

The private sector has the right to strike, the police do not. If the government are going to treat them the same as the private sector, fine, repeal the law on the right to strike; then see how much they are depended on.

I don?t think that the right to strike will be needed there are plenty of other ways of withdrawing labour which will be very bad for the people of this country and this time I think that the threat is real and will happen. Plans are already drawn up to bring the troops in to patrol the streets in a non marshal law situation I just don?t know where we have that spare capacity of troops these days. Has everyone worked out how you are going to protect your propety with no police force?

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Paul Kennedy    33
Originally posted by little fella:

Baz you seem to be missing a few things, the police pension is a contributory pension scheme of 11%, anybody can have a private pension and the more you pay in the more you get out (Which is still taxable). Unlike the MPs who pay nothing in and get the biggest pension of all Tax free.

Worth mentioning that the police receive a full pension after 30 years of service, its benefits are guaranteed by the state.

 

It is incorrect to say MPs do not contribute to their pension scheme, depending on the accrual rate they opt for they do at a rate of up to 10%. Neither is an MPs pension tax free, all pensions including the state pension are taxable.

 

It is correct to say that as conventional defined benefit pension schemes go and by and large only the state sector employers are continuing to provide them, MPs do have the best that there is.

 

On the main point regarding the police pay increase, I am really at a loss to know why the Home Secretary has chosen such a fight over what is a relatively small sum of money. Very odd.

 

PS On a further point, if police pay is deemed to be too low, then recruitment and retention will become a problem, I don't anticipate that that will be the case.

 

[ 13.12.2007, 07:49: Message edited by: Paul Kennedy ]

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Peter T    59

Quote:PS On a further point, if police pay is deemed to be too low, then recruitment and retention will become a problem, I don't anticipate that that will be the case.

 

This was the case years ago, and there was no continuation in the police force. One minute, you had experience bobbies, and the next they were replaced by "kids" out of school. And now we have pretend ones.

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observer    552

I never cease to be amused how folk tend to be resentfull about the pay and conditions of other workers, especially essential public sector employees; when we have a Monarchy, a Political Class, Footballers etc; Pop Singers etc, and a group of glorified bookies in "the City" absolutely ripping the back out of us all, doing next to nothing of an essential nature. :roll::x

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Bazj    498

Obs... whatever the story behind the police and their perks, the fact is they only do 30 years and can walk away. I wasn't suggesting that a 48 year old can run after a young lad but why can't the 48 year old drive the patrol car or the van taking the bunch of coppers to the football match? Why can't they do the desk jobs and the like?

 

No one is saying that the Police don't do a difficult job but so does everyone else, but the rest have to do that difficult job until they are 65. I've worked with 60 year old contract electricians who still have to climb scaffolding or they don't work and don't earn. The only pension scheme most people could bank on up until a few years ago was the state pension but even that has been raped and pillaged by the politicians.

 

I have an 85 year old mum who lives on her own and if the press are to believed she will be getting a 1p rise on her pension....

 

So lets get this into perspective shall we? The Police are on a very good thing. The Politicians are on an even better thing.... and as for the rest of us? well I'll let you know my story in 20 years time!

 

Originally posted by little fella:

Has everyone worked out how you are going to protect your propety with no police force?

Were you serious when you wrote this bit? because I heard an interesting phone call to a radio show today in which the caller said that if the Police did go on strike; would the average member of the public notice?

 

No one would come if you were burgled.... they don't anyway

 

No one would come if you reported a gang of anti-social yobs.....they don't anyway

 

No one would come if your car was broken into..... they don't anyway

 

Who would give you your "Crime Number".... ah, got me on that one!

 

He had a point don't you think??

 

[ 13.12.2007, 22:49: Message edited by: BazJ ]

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Peter T    59

The police don't man the desk as far as I know, so a civvy would give you the number.

Or did they get rid of the civvies to save money and took the police off the beat to man the phones?

Aaaaagh, I'm confused now.

But financially they are on a good thing. Early pension, income subsidised by Security work when they quit the force.

 

PS. Don't they spend a lot of time on the sick, as well.

obs. What's the retiring age for the Fire Service?

 

[ 13.12.2007, 22:54: Message edited by: Peter ]

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If its right what you say baz then we are ok, there are no crime figures, no reported crime and no one going to court and no one in jail.

Oh and the civilians on the end of the phone are all members of UNISON and have the right to strike and have done so recently. The action planned should not affect the public so much but if it continues nothing is safe.

Only a few years ago the majority of police would not have taken industrial action because they were dedicated to their profession. You don?t have that now, its a job I am sure that there are some stats somewhere but there are very few now who will go on to 30 years service most leave before 10 years and you can take your pension with you. It is a good stepping stone to a better career or a way of getting a few bob together before starting a family. Very few girls stay, some do come back part time for a while. Training and equipping costs these days are also very high but that is all another story. Thirty or forty years ago the investment put into training a bobby brought a good return with almost everyone working 30 to 35 years.

It is strange that whatever job you are in, you always look on others as being paid too much, whilst you think your own job is poorly paid. I often wonder how they set up these think tanks and formulate what a persons pay should be. Most seem to be chaired by some judge who has spent all his life with a silver spoon in his gob and protected from the human race, who also knows nothing about working life. Collecting his information he has a selected few civil servants who also have never done a days work in their life. Yet they evaluate working practice in Fire , Police Ambulance, Nursing.

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observer    552

I referred to my amusement at the way folk look at fellow workers with jealous eyes, instead of improving their own lot or/and doing something about the real leaches at the top; and blow me, we then go through posts along those lines. :wink:

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Bazj    498

But Obs you seem to be obsessed with football players and popstars. They count for nothing. They are a complete anomoly when it comes to earnings and pensions and earn more in a year than most do in a lifetime.

 

I have a problem with a public servant working for just 30 years and then retiring. But they don't retire do they? they go on and work for another 20 years in some cases and still draw a pension.

 

Why not get them to contribute to their pension at say 7% and let them work longer instead of getting rid of all the experience and knowledge so easily?

 

The government seem adamant in taking them on over pay so they might as well throw a little pension reform in while they are at it!

 

Baz

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observer    552

What's this 7%? :wink: Coincidentally; the new England manager will be pulling ?6million a year till 2010, when he will probably go and get another job?! :wink:

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Bazj    498

But with our country Obs the England manager and Take That ARE more important than the police.... everyone knows that!! :D

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observer    552

Precisely my point - distorted values! :roll: Back to the Police issue: it's not even about the amount of money (which is puny in the general scheme of things) ; it's about honouring an independently arbitrated pay award - alas "honour" is a dirty word in politics, unless the two-faced Bs use it to address each other in Parliament - "Right Honourable" - my backside! :o:x

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wahl    22

so long as the police do not get any money from council tax to compensate, they can go on strike for all i care

 

they are overpaid, underworked and have a cushy number

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Paul Kennedy    33

Overpaid, well folks can decide by clicking on the link, underworked...no probably quite busy filling in reams of useless paperwork, cushy...as in most jobs there will be some who do manage to work themselves a cushy number.

 

I think their pay is reasonable, pension etc is very good and as I understand it there is plenty of overtime available for the junior ranks, most other jobs overtime is a thing of the past, extra hours are expected and unpaid.

 

I've often thought that pay for nurses, fire brigade, police and armed forces should be the same, a single payscale for those deemed to be essential services.

 

Police Pay Scales

 

[ 14.12.2007, 18:34: Message edited by: Paul Kennedy ]

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