HMRC Income Tax Summary

[Victor]

I have just received a Tax Summary for 2013/2014 from HMRC.  This shows total income and tax paid for that year and also a breakdown on how income tax paid is utilised.  All very interesting but these summaries have been sent out to 24 million tax payers in the UK. If it only costs £1 to prepare each summary (it is probably a lot more than this), then this has cost £24 million pounds.  How can this be justified in these times of austerity.

[observer]

Think it's in the interests of transparency or to wind up those paying tax into moaning about paying for those who don't - divide and conquer !  Question is; was there any mention of the 10% of the population who own 80% of it's wealth, who probably have the means to ensure they pay relatively little or no tax ?!  PS. I'll have to recheck my summary to see if there's any mention of the tax subsidy being paid to "independent" schools among other things !

[asperity]

Do you mean "wealth" or "money" Obs? Not the same thing you know.

 

As for how much this costs, well the government isn't bothered, they aren't paying for it - you are!!

[Victor]

Obs, it's not the content of this newly generated tax summary that I am talking about.

I am just annoyed that HMRC can spend millions on this kind of communication.

[observer]

Whilst I agree Asp, one can be asset rich and cash poor, or visa versa;  it all amounts to wealth. If you have so much cash that you don't know what to do with it, investment in assets can be a safer saving option.  The point is, the wealth is out there, and owned by only 10%; so perhaps Governments could start tapping into it on the grounds that we're "all in it together" !   Vic, misspending is feature of many organisations, especially Government and Councils; Question is, what exactly is essential, desirable or a complete waste - and that depends usually on one's perception of self interest.

[asperity]

But the problem is that governments don't address the issue of how much they are wasting, they just plead poverty and demand even more money from the plebs (am I allowed to say plebs? Don't care).

[Victor]

I totally agree, Asp.

Trouble is, the idiots would probably create another think tank to look into how to stop waste, which would probably cost more than what is being wasted !!!!

[wolfie]

But they are trying Asp. The government have employed 3250 extra staff to investigate £1.2 billion of benefit fraud, oh and nearly forgot, an other 300 staff to investigate £70 billion of tax evasion.

[Dizzy]

What a complete waste of time and money.  I just googled the tax summary sheets and while HMRC say 24 million are set to receive they also say that ANYONE can find out how their has been spent by using the online tax calculator and clicking on 'detailed calculation'.  I just tried it and it gives you a pie chart breakdown etc so why not just let people use that if they want to know where theirs has gone?

http://tools.hmrc.gov.uk/hmrctaxcalculator/screen/Personal+Tax+Calculator/en-GB/summary?user=guest

 

[observer]

Sounds like common sense Diz - but computer systems cost money too. I changed a Hospital appointment, then received 3 separate letters in the post, with three different dates; sure we can all identify waste everywhere.

[inky pete]

One of my customers in my previous job produced and mailed these and £1 per item is WAY to high an estimate.

 

It utilises exactly the same computer systems, printers and mailing equipment which produce the Notice of Coding each year for every taxpayer, and that equipment is usually sitting there doing very little at this time of year - so no extra capital equipment cost. Maybe closer to 5p per item for paper, ink, envelope and staff to run the machines. Postage at bulk mailing rates for second class mail which goes to Royal Mail pre-sorted will be around 25p per item.

 

So 30p would be closer than £1, maybe £8million to produce and distribute these to every taxpayer in the country. Not a great deal of money for the information and transparency it provides.

 

Plus, those 24 million mail items help to support the Royal Mail and helps them to maintain the universal service which is so valued in this country.

 

And, the printing and mailing for this is actually carried out at a facility in Warrington - supporting dozens of jobs in our borough.

[wolfie]

Not a great deal of money for the information and transparency it provides.

Eh what information and transparency? What about the "indirect" taxes such as VAT, petrol duty and council tax, which are not included on the new tax statements.

What about the extra tax on their weekly shopping, household bills, clothing and footwear, and transport and leisure activities, not forgetting the gas and electricity bills. Where's the section highlighting MPs expenses. This is nothing to do with transparency it's just a cynical attempt to scare people into thinking we are spending tens of billion on welfare and as such give the government the nod to cut benefits again. It is a total waste of money whether it cost £8m or £1m 

[inky pete]

But we ARE spending tens of billions on welfare. It accounts for around 1 in every 4 pounds the government spends.

 

And that's NOT including pensions!

[wolfie]

Well so much for the transparency because apparantly it does include  pensions paid to teachers, nurses, doctors, police officers and fire crew, hardly welfare.

It also includes long-term care for the elderly, sick and disabled  Other pensions spending including pension credit and winter fuel allowance.

Like I said just a cynical ploy to convince people that it's all spent on the feckless and out of work.

[inky pete]

Work related pensions for state sector employees are paid for by whatever department or organisation employs them. The pension contributions come from the employers budgets and go into a number of pension schemes which are invested - just like any other employment pension.

 

The fact that there is a big hole in some of these schemes and it doesn't look like they have the assets to meet all of their projected liabilities is another question altogether, but has nothing to do with annual tax income vs. government spending.

 

The inescapable FACT is that 1 pound in every 4 the government spends goes on welfare - much of it in the form of tax credits and housing benefit which are really nothing more than a subsidy to low paying employers.

[observer]

Fair point in your last paragraph Ink,  about "in work" benefits;  but Governments have a problem trying to incentivise the unemployed into work. Not a problem of course for anyone that's only used to a few sloty or kopecks a day! 

[P J]

Just looking at one of these forms now,  and my eyesight isn't what it used to be.  What is that tiny little sliver near the top of the pie chart, the smallest one of all?

[wolfie]

Government Ministers have stated quite clearly, that showing where taxpayers’ money goes, could make voters more likely to accept even more welfare cuts.

 

Seeing that there are laws which prevents the Government from using tax payers money to promote their re-election campaign via political propaganda, it raises the question, are the Government breaking the law by using tax payers money to publish this highly politically motivated manipulation of the statistics?

[inky pete]

Whoever wins the next election is going to have to cut total spending, and since welfare is over 25% of the total that budget is going to have to carry its share of the cuts.

 

It's not a party political issue when everyone is going to have to do it - whether they admit to it now or not.

[wolfie]

Osborne's target is to cut £12 billion in the first 2 years of the next Parliament. Recoup just one fifth of the money lost to tax evasion and there would be no need to cut any of the welfare budget.

[observer]

Yes, we have to cut the deficit and seek a balanced budget; but the problem is, the 90% of the population that only own 20% of the wealth are bearing the burden of austerity. Time for a Government that will start parting the 10% from their 80% share, but none of the Parties has the guts to do it.

[P J]

Can't see how the abolition of inheritance tax will help this issue can you?

[inky pete]

But that 10% of the population already pay 90% of all of the income tax Obs.

 

How much more of the burden do you want them to take on?

[observer]

Think your dreaming there Ink, the richest 10% can afford the resources to ensure they pay less %age than most of us, and HMRC haven't the resources or will, to go after the them. We've had the absurd nonsense of "experts" being employed to advise Government on formulating tax legislation, who have then left to work in the private sector and advise their clients how to avoid tax.

[wolfie]

£72 billion worth of tax evasion, do you think it's those on benefits who are evading it?