middlec Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 Excellent Algy. Let's spread the word around, through all social media outlets, as well as verbally. I am sure the organisers of this online petition will be considering posters and where to display them to gather as many names as possible. Let's give this our support. It may not alter the closure situation, but at least it's showing that we are not happy about the decision (made without any consultation!...how's that for democracy?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted June 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 Sorry Coffee, I didn't realise I wasn't allowed to make a comment or observation in reply to your comment if yours was in reply to something someone else had said rather than by me. I wish people would tell me when the forum rules change Sorry Dizzy, but your over reacting, i just answered your question, whty your throwing your toys out of your pram I am not sure. All I pointed out you can ask the same question of anyone else who engages in a debate. I wasn't over reacting at all Coffee and I certainly wasn't throwing any of my toys out of my pram... hence the " " at the end of my reply. PS I didn't ask anyone else the same question because I agreed with what they were saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted June 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 To protest open this link to sign the petition to reverse the the decision to close the Sandy lane Tip!. http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/warrington-borough-council-reverse-the-decision-to-close-sandy-lane-recycling-centre-in-stockton-heath Excellent Algy.Let's spread the word around, through all social media outlets, as well as verbally. I am sure the organisers of this online petition will be considering posters and where to display them to gather as many names as possible. Let's give this our support. It may not alter the closure situation, but at least it's showing that we are not happy about the decision (made without any consultation!...how's that for democracy?) EXCELLENT !! I will sign it later and yes we all need to spread the word I wonder if Gary will put something on the front page news for tomorrow morning saying there is now an on-line petition for people to sign. Not everyone will read this forum topic but 1000's read the news page daily (BIG HINT HINT GARY !! ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
middlec Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 And don't forget it's worth an email to councillors stating objections to the closure. David Mowat MP for the area is now aware of the situation and involved, so it's worth emailing him too (contact details on his website) Let the campaign gather momentum! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 Maybe Cllr Settle and Cllr Parish will sign it.... or will they toe the party line I wonder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted June 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 The momentum is now growing....The online petition has gained over 100 new signatures in only a few hours.There is now also a dedicated facebook group page here.... (an open group but you have to be a member of facebook to view it)https://www.facebook.com/groups/543249632463914/Paper petitions are in circulation (although I'm not sure where they are)and also posters being produced to go around the village. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted June 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 Maybe Cllr Settle and Cllr Parish will sign it.... or will they toe the party line I wonder Seeing as though neither of them have commented on this topic so far, and they must have seen it, I very much doubt they will put their name to a petition Baz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inky pete Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 To protest open this link to sign the petition to reverse the the decision to close the Sandy lane Tip!. http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/warrington-borough-council-reverse-the-decision-to-close-sandy-lane-recycling-centre-in-stockton-heath Signed, and shared with all my Facebook friends. I'll email all of my own local councillors later today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted June 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 Don't forget to share the new facebook group too Inky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grey_man Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 From what is suggested on the Facebook Group, this is the standard MO of clandestine meetings with developers, decisions taken in private and an unwillingness to share information with the people of Warrington. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted June 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 I saw that too grey_man re the rumour that the land has 'possibly' been sold.It will be interesting to see if Andy Farrell (the Assistant Director or 'whatever') actually answers the question that has been asked either way or whether a FOI request has to go in. You'd think if it was a 'No' then it would be answered pretty quick though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grey_man Posted June 26, 2014 Report Share Posted June 26, 2014 As I've said on the Facebook group, whoever thought Andy Farrall wa the man to re-establish the reputation of the council in this regard given his - let's say - 'colourful' track record should also be answering some questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ann Raymond Posted June 26, 2014 Report Share Posted June 26, 2014 Hi, I am a Stockton Heath Parish Councillor and I can assure you the Parish Council was neither consulted nor informed of the decision to close the tip. Dizzy has asked what the Lib Dems are doing:- we have managed to have the decision 'called in' which means the council's scrutiny committee must listen to our concerns and comments, then decide whether to refer the decision back to the exec board for further discussion. The Call In takes place at the Town Hall, 6.30pm on Thursday 3rd July. It is open to the public, though the public is not allowed to speak at the meeting. A small number of Lib Dem councillors and local residents will present the concerns (we only have 30 minutes in total to present our case). Last Saturday at our regular street surgery (we are there the 3rd Saturday of each month) we asked people to complete a short survey about their usage of the tip and what they thought the effects of the closure would be. We will be at The Forge again this Saturday (28th) with the survey. The results of the survey will help our councillors to present the views of residents. The Lib Dems have not started a petition. The staff at the tip had one, which I think they have had to stop, but there are petitions online. Hope that helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hill Cliffe walker Posted June 26, 2014 Report Share Posted June 26, 2014 Thank you Ann, This is most helpful to all of those who do not want the Sandy Lane tip to close. I hope that this issue can be resolved. It is a subject of interest to many people who do not live in the areas served by the tip, as there is a very important principle at stake here. This issue seems to have taked pressure off the subject of the wall of tyres on Kingsway. We can only hope that Warrington Borough Council are better placed to resolve the tip issue - than they have been in resolving the tyre issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted June 26, 2014 Report Share Posted June 26, 2014 "though the public is not allowed to speak at the meeting"....... ah the joys of freedom of speech I really just wish that people in this country would wise up to the fact that all of these little tin-pot dictators that pass themselves off as councillors are all on some kind of massive power trip/ego boost and will do and say anything to keep themselves and their parties in power. Closing a community resource such as the tip at Stockton Heath is totally unacceptable and if it goes ahead it should be followed by a complete and utter backlash against those councillors who came up with the idea. I bet they never mentioned these plans when they were begging for votes a few weeks ago..... Time to keep party politics out of local Councils and only vote for independent candidates who actually live in the areas they wish to represent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted June 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2014 Thanks for the information Anne and welcome to the forum Prepare for a bit of a hounding though and a barrage of questions Can I ask why the Lib Dems have decided NOT to run a petition to show public support along side their survey. I realise that there is now one on-line but I believe that was only started a few days ago by the same lady who also started the facebook group page.There are a great many people who wont be aware of the on-line petition or who do not use facebook/on-line petitions etc so having no paper version for people to sign seem rather ridiculous in my opinion especially considering it is Stockton Heath Festival in just over a weeks time. I'm sure there would be many hundreds of local people attending all the events who use the tip regularly and would be very eager to sign a petition and also fill in your survey sheets.Are your survey sheets available in any of the local shops by the way so that other local people who rarely shop in the village between 10.30am ad 12 on a Saturday morning can complete them too. I'm usually in the village most week days but rarely at weekend. I will go on Saturday now that I know about it though. I can fully understand why the staff at the tip have stopped with their petition as they are all in complete limbo at the moment and they haven't even got a clue if they will still have jobs after 1st August. They are in no position to be seen rocking the boat as the final decision over all their jobs (at all 3 centres) seems to be in the hands of the new management company from what they understand. The decision to close the tip is bad enough on it's own but it is an utter DISGRACE how the staff are being treated and that they only found out by word of mouth that Stockton Heath Tip was closing after reports in the local press spread. That is NO way to treat people especially ones who have worked there for over 10 years. WBC should be ashamed of themselves ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Posted June 26, 2014 Report Share Posted June 26, 2014 "though the public is not allowed to speak at the meeting"....... ah the joys of freedom of speech I really just wish that people in this country would wise up to the fact that all of these little tin-pot dictators that pass themselves off as councillors are all on some kind of massive power trip/ego boost and will do and say anything to keep themselves and their parties in power. Closing a community resource such as the tip at Stockton Heath is totally unacceptable and if it goes ahead it should be followed by a complete and utter backlash against those councillors who came up with the idea. I bet they never mentioned these plans when they were begging for votes a few weeks ago..... Time to keep party politics out of local Councils and only vote for independent candidates who actually live in the areas they wish to represent I was going to post on this any more but - Bazj I agree with you 100% however we are where we are and if that tip stays open the saving from shuting that tip and the money generated from sale of land will have to come from some place, so there will have to be cuts elsewhere. As long as it is not in the South of Warrington I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ann Raymond Posted June 26, 2014 Report Share Posted June 26, 2014 Rules of the council I'm afraid Baz. It is 'a council meeting open to the public' as opposed to 'a public meeting'. If there is sufficient concern, who knows, the council may decide to hold a public meeting. Are you an independent councillor Baz? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ann Raymond Posted June 26, 2014 Report Share Posted June 26, 2014 Hi Dizzy, good question. We decided to run the survey and not a petition for a few reasons: 1) The staff at the tip had already started one, so we agreed to have their petition on our street surgery table, rather than start another one. Of course, we weren't to know that the tip management would tell them they couldn't have the petition on site (which is what I've been told). 2) We have raised petitions in recent years about the Peel Ports plan and the increased charges in the car park and presented them to the council. The petitions were signed by a total of 8000+ people but the council simply ignored them. 3) The most important reason - getting the decision called in was the only way to 'force' the council to listen to the concerns of residents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grey_man Posted June 26, 2014 Report Share Posted June 26, 2014 I was going to post on this any more but - Bazj I agree with you 100% however we are where we are and if that tip stays open the saving from shuting that tip and the money generated from sale of land will have to come from some place, so there will have to be cuts elsewhere. As long as it is not in the South of Warrington I guess. I don't think the council has considered all of the options and there's no reason to assume that keeping it open as part of a different approach will lead to cuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted June 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2014 Hi Dizzy, good question. We decided to run the survey and not a petition for a few reasons: 1) The staff at the tip had already started one, so we agreed to have their petition on our street surgery table, rather than start another one. Of course, we weren't to know that the tip management would tell them they couldn't have the petition on site (which is what I've been told). 2) We have raised petitions in recent years about the Peel Ports plan and the increased charges in the car park and presented them to the council. The petitions were signed by a total of 8000+ people but the council simply ignored them. 3) The most important reason - getting the decision called in was the only way to 'force' the council to listen to the concerns of residents. If you already had their paper petition on your street surgery table at the start then why aren't you continuing with it now? If the tip management have now told the staff that they CAN NOT have it on site then that's even more reason why you should have continued to have it on your table and continue from with where they started. Even if, as say, the council may just ignore it at least it is a firm show off support and gives an indication of the number of local people opposed to the closure. On-line petitions are all well and good but when they are circulated through social media sites then there may be a lot of people who sign who do not actually live in the local area so their signatures/addresses will probably be probably be earmarked and so being 'relevant'. I do understand what you say about petitions being ignored by the council in the past though as that happened with one I was involved with many years ago which gained over 5000 signatures. It was handed over to the council in person , it was stuffed in a drawer somewhere, then they said they had lost it, then they found it again after we said we had a duplicate copy, then every single name and address on it was meticulously studied and analysed by the councilors and officers in the hope of finding anything at all to discredit it. It was finally recognised and accepted for what it stood for and why in the end, oh and Clr Ian Marks and Liberal democrats were in full charge of the council when all that went on Anyway that aside, the council have since changed their policy and in 2010 they adopted a 'formal petitions scheme'..... so if they were to just ignore any petitions now then surely they should be held to account over that. Being a local parish councilor I'm sure you are aware of the scheme but for those who aren't here is the link WBC's website page all about petitions, how to create them (either on-line or on paper) and what happens to them after submission. http://www.warrington.gov.uk/info/200349/council_meetings/665/petitions I often wonder whether I would have made a good councilor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inky pete Posted June 26, 2014 Report Share Posted June 26, 2014 I was going to post on this any more but - Bazj I agree with you 100% however we are where we are and if that tip stays open the saving from shuting that tip and the money generated from sale of land will have to come from some place, so there will have to be cuts elsewhere. As long as it is not in the South of Warrington I guess. There's plenty of instances of trade waste going into both Woolston and Gateworth tips without being charged for as it should be. Anyone who has spent more than half an hour at either on a week day will have seen the staff opening the height restriction barriers to let traders vans in without ever questioning the nature of what they are tipping. If WBC got on top of that situation they might even run all three of the tips at an overall profit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ann Raymond Posted June 26, 2014 Report Share Posted June 26, 2014 The Call In questions the decision making process, rather than the decision itself (i.e to close Sandy Lane) So, for example, a question can be raised about lack of consultation, or whether other options were considered. The council knows the strength of local opinion already. They knew it would be a controversial decision! Sorry don't know anything about your petition some years ago - maybe you could email Ian to ask him about it? The issue of profit raised by inky is a good one! Sandy Lane of course doesn't take rubble and such like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grey_man Posted June 26, 2014 Report Share Posted June 26, 2014 The Call In questions the decision making process, rather than the decision itself (i.e to close Sandy Lane) So, for example, a question can be raised about lack of consultation, or whether other options were considered. The council knows the strength of local opinion already. They knew it would be a controversial decision! Sorry don't know anything about your petition some years ago - maybe you could email Ian to ask him about it? The issue of profit raised by inky is a good one! Sandy Lane of course doesn't take rubble and such like. Do you think they understand the growing feeling of resentment generally Ann? And if so, do they care? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hill Cliffe walker Posted June 26, 2014 Report Share Posted June 26, 2014 This is from Warrington Borough Council's own web-site. Home Council, democracy and elections Consultation Consultation Warrington Borough Council is committed to improving the way we consult and engage with our communities. This lies at the heart of what we do in being able to deliver the high quality services that people want and expect. Effective community consultation enables the council to better understand its clients and customers whilst encouraging the most efficient use of public resources and enables evidence-based decision making. The terms consultation, involvement and engagement are often misunderstood or used interchangeably. All are about listening to the views of local people in order to shape services, develop policy or take action. Consultation is the process of asking for and listening to the views of local people or groups with the aim of influencing decisions, policies or actions. Involvement is a process in which people actively participate, and during which the council exchanges information with them and seeks their views. Engagement involves an on-going mutually beneficial two-way partnership between the council and stakeholders. Decision-making may be shared between the parties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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