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Dizzy

WBC to close Sandy Lane Tip, Stockton Heath - 1 August !!

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well surely the obvious answer if you don't want your councils budgets slashed when there is a tory government in power is to elect a tory council and vice versa?

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The actions of a man who knows how this looks. I notice his bullet points are full of 'looking into' and 'considering'. ie Nothing.

One thing I hadn't noticed at first when reading the Labour councilor's leaflet is that he also says

 

"For the present the Town Hall will retain the recycling centres at Sankey Bridges & Woolston"

 

'For the present' is a rather odd thing to say so could one of those also be earmarked for possible closure in the future ?

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I have no problem with the investment in Orford. I've said that before. What I have a problem with, as I've also said, is that when it comes to a decision about the closure of facilities we know which one this council will choose. They do not make these decisions based on the needs of residents but on political grounds. On that basis, local people would be better off under a different administration. 

 

The point stands about charging people for parking at shops and aggressively targeting them for fines. It deters people, so this council is actively harming local businesses. The shop owners in SH have told the council this but they simply don't care because it means they can make a profit over the whole borough without affecting Labour wards.

 

And we aren't talking about hospitals, we are talking about a local medical centre which the council expects people to be able to predict how long they will be in an appointment or - in your case - park somewhere else and walk. 

 

Publish the figures Grey Man

 

As for the traffic wardens in Warrington are aggressive everywhere in the town not just SH

 

Looked up the medical center, it is a GP service, a business, if it is an issue they should approach the council and pay for some parking for its customers

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Coffee, that is my doctors surgery and the charge for parking for over 1 hour resulted in them writing endless letters to confirm that patients had been delayed due to unforseen circumstances so that the parking tickets would hopefully be cancelled.  Now they have posters on their walls apologising to patients that they can no longer spend the time writing such letters and advising patients to pay the 50p for up to two hours parking just in case they do happen to go over the 1 hour.  Very unfair especially for the elderly and those who have to go by car for whatever reason and also the ones who need regular appointments.

Also traders in the village (and YES it is and always has been classed as a village) noticed a significant drop in footfall and trade once the car park charges were changed.  The only ones who weren't affected were the pubs, pars, restaurants and fast food places as they are open at night and it's FREE parking after 6pm

By the way the top part of the car park never used to be council owned, it belonged to the shopping precinct (or was it the lower car park, it was one of them anyway) so it's a damn shame the council ever took it over.  If you ever go there watch out for the huge potholes as they are all starting to appear again now after the shoddy quick fix repairs.

Anyway.....  that's another issue for another topic so back to the tip for me

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Coffee

Publish what figures? You're getting desperate now.

If you mean the figures regarding the decision to increase the income from the car parks in SH and Lymm to cover the shortfalls in the rest of Warrington, they're on the council website. I can't be bothered to find them for you because you won't change your mind. You look them up.

If you mean the targeting of motorists for fines in SH, then those are here: http://www.warringtonguardian.co.uk/news/10596027.Revealed__Top_ten_places_for_parking_fines/ Stockton Heath - well over twice as much income from fines as anywhere else and over a quarter of all fines for Warrington, from just one car park. The reason why, as anybody who has been there will tell you, is you have wardens effectively performing a constant circuit of a fairly small car park so they can ticket people the second they are late. I don't blame the wardens, they're just doing a job. It's the people focussing their efforts on this one car park that are responsible and councillors like Linda Dirir for deciding Stockton Heath should be singled out for special treatment.

 

If you mean figures for the facilities and services you can show the council has invested in over here, the answer is 0.

If you mean something else, you've lost me.

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Coffee, that is my doctors surgery and the charge for parking for over 1 hour resulted in them writing endless letters to confirm that patients had been delayed due to unforseen circumstances so that the parking tickets would hopefully be cancelled.  Now they have posters on their walls apologising to patients that they can no longer spend the time writing such letters and advising patients to pay the 50p for up to two hours parking just in case they do happen to go over the 1 hour.  Very unfair especially for the elderly and those who have to go by car for whatever reason and also the ones who need regular appointments.

 

Also traders in the village (and YES it is and always has been classed as a village) noticed a significant drop in footfall and trade once the car park charges were changed.  The only ones who weren't affected were the pubs, pars, restaurants and fast food places as they are open at night and it's FREE parking after 6pm

 

By the way the top part of the car park never used to be council owned, it belonged to the shopping precinct (or was it the lower car park, it was one of them anyway) so it's a damn shame the council ever took it over.  If you ever go there watch out for the huge potholes as they are all starting to appear again now after the shoddy quick fix repairs.

 

Anyway.....  that's another issue for another topic so back to the tip for me

 

It is a village just like, Bewsey is, Lastchford, Padgate, Penketh, they might have a village status but they are not villages they are suburbs of Warrington

 

 

Coffee

 

Publish what figures? You're getting desperate now.

 

If you mean the figures regarding the decision to increase the income from the car parks in SH and Lymm to cover the shortfalls in the rest of Warrington, they're on the council website. I can't be bothered to find them for you because you won't change your mind. You look them up.

 

If you mean the targeting of motorists for fines in SH, then those are here: http://www.warringtonguardian.co.uk/news/10596027.Revealed__Top_ten_places_for_parking_fines/ Stockton Heath - well over twice as much income from fines as anywhere else and over a quarter of all fines for Warrington, from just one car park. The reason why, as anybody who has been there will tell you, is you have wardens effectively performing a constant circuit of a fairly small car park so they can ticket people the second they are late. I don't blame the wardens, they're just doing a job. It's the people focussing their efforts on this one car park that are responsible and councillors like Linda Dirir for deciding Stockton Heath should be singled out for special treatment.

 

If you mean figures for the facilities and services you can show the council has invested in over here, the answer is 0.

 

If you mean something else, you've lost me.

 

The fall in trade,

 

I have been to Stockton Heath many times in the evening, there is no really good reason for me to go during the day. Last time I was in Stockton Heath during the day was September I guess, took my phone to be repaired, the car park was virtually full .

 

It is not really the councils job to provide parking for private enterprises including Doctors surgeries. I would agree with you if the charges were high but they are not.so don't really see why having to pay 50 pence is unfair.

 

As for the over zealousness of the traffic wardens that is a different matter, but they are probably no more strict in SH then in the rest of Warrington. I received two tickets while with a disabled passenger for very minor mistakes although one was begrudgingly cancelled

 

PS: The dentist I use has no parking facilities, the roads around it are permit only and there is a tiny car park at the end of Lexden St, which is often full, is it WBC duty to provide one?

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I see. So you want me to produce accounts for all of the businesses in Stockton Heath? What could be more reasonable? Or we could just accept the fact that they and the medical centre and the local Parish Council and so on are all telling the truth.

 

Once again..... just for you....

 

The cost isn't the issue. What is the issue is that the car park in Stockton Heath, which was already making a profit - while other car parks and on street parking in the Borough don't - has been specifically targeted by the council's own parking strategy to yield more income to cover the shortfall elsewhere. What they have come up with is a structure that harms local businesses (by deterring shoppers from taking time to shop) and is such a problem for patients at the medical centre that the surgery has said it cannot cope with the issues it creates. But (and this is the important bit that really isn't sinking in so pay special attention for just one more second) the council is not doing the same thing elsewhere

 

And yes, it is part of the council's own strategy to provide an environment in which businesses can flourish. It's all there on the council's own website. Go look it up if you don't believe me. Regardless of that, this car park was already making a profit for the council, while others are not. It just wants more profit from it so it doesn't have to ask people to pay more in other wards.  

 

As for the traffic wardens, between a quarter and a third of all fines in the whole of Warrington come from this single car park. A town with over 200,000 residents covering 70 square miles and this one car park which isn't even in the town centre, provides this much revenue for the council and you conclude that it's not being treated any differently to anywhere else?

 banging-head-on-the-wall-smiley-emoticon

 

And where do the council spend this money? Anywhere but South Warrington. 

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Tell you what, since the residents north of the water obviously think that the parking charges in the south are perfectly reasonable, why not roll them out right across the borough - and also require the various on street residents parking schemes to show the same level of financial surplus - and use the money to keep Sandy Lane tip open?

 

Everybody's happy.

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Tell you what, since the residents north of the water obviously think that the parking charges in the south are perfectly reasonable, why not roll them out right across the borough - and also require the vatious on street residents parking schemes to show the same level of financial surplus - and use the money to keep Sandy Lane tip open?

 

Everybody's happy.

 

:mrgreen:

 

Here are five that are currently free for a kick off. 

  • Common Lane, Culcheth, Warrington, WA3 5QS
  • Jackson Avenue, Culcheth, Warrington, WA3 4EJ
  • Marsh Street, Orford, Warrington, WA1 3QA
  • Cobden Street, Orford, Warrington, WA2 7AL
  • Sharp Street, Orford, Warrington, WA2 7AP

I propose that the council applies the same prices here and has a warden on a permanent loop on each site to maximise the income from fines. No mercy.

 

(It ain't gonna happen of course. Not with those post codes.) 

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The fall in trade,

 

I have been to Stockton Heath many times in the evening, there is no really good reason for me to go during the day. Last time I was in Stockton Heath during the day was September I guess, took my phone to be repaired, the car park was virtually full .

Coffee it's always busy in the evening because it's full of bars, pubs, restaurants and take-a-ways.  It's FREE to park after 6 too so all the people coming into the village from near or far after 6 don't have to pay anything. 

 

I've often wondered why they didn't just leave the 2 hours free parking in place during the day and then charge all the other people who come in at night say 30p to park.  If people can afford to eat out in the village they can afford to stump up a bit to park :wink:

 

If as you say there's really no good reason for you to come to Stockton Heath in the day and if the last time you were here was 8 months ago (just to get your phone fixed) then I'm surprised you have so much to say about the village or so much interest in what happens over here.

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If as you say there's really no good reason for you to come to Stockton Heath in the day and if the last time you were here was 8 months ago (just to get your phone fixed) then I'm surprised you have so much to say about the village or so much interest in what happens over here.

 

You should ask Grey Man and Inky why they have so much interest in what happens in the North, it is to their posts I am responding.

 

Tell you what, since the residents north of the water obviously think that the parking charges in the south are perfectly reasonable, why not roll them out right across the borough - and also require the various on street residents parking schemes to show the same level of financial surplus - and use the money to keep Sandy Lane tip open?

 

Everybody's happy.

 

I really do not get why the street parking schemes run at a loss, is it because of the cost of enforcement, If so are they really needed?

 

:mrgreen:

 

Here are five that are currently free for a kick off. 

  • Common Lane, Culcheth, Warrington, WA3 5QS
  • Jackson Avenue, Culcheth, Warrington, WA3 4EJ
  • Marsh Street, Orford, Warrington, WA1 3QA
  • Cobden Street, Orford, Warrington, WA2 7AL
  • Sharp Street, Orford, Warrington, WA2 7AP

I propose that the council applies the same prices here and has a warden on a permanent loop on each site to maximise the income from fines. No mercy.

 

(It ain't gonna happen of course. Not with those post codes.) 

 

Which ones are council owned? I pretty sure the first one on your list is not, as I recently read the owners have stopped their clamping operations.

 

The second is a residential park is it not?

 

The other three are tiny, not very busy and would probably run at a loss

 

I see. So you want me to produce accounts for all of the businesses in Stockton Heath? What could be more reasonable? Or we could just accept the fact that they and the medical centre and the local Parish Council and so on are all telling the truth.

 

Once again..... just for you....

 

The cost isn't the issue. What is the issue is that the car park in Stockton Heath, which was already making a profit - while other car parks and on street parking in the Borough don't - has been specifically targeted by the council's own parking strategy to yield more income to cover the shortfall elsewhere. What they have come up with is a structure that harms local businesses (by deterring shoppers from taking time to shop) and is such a problem for patients at the medical centre that the surgery has said it cannot cope with the issues it creates. But (and this is the important bit that really isn't sinking in so pay special attention for just one more second) the council is not doing the same thing elsewhere

 

And yes, it is part of the council's own strategy to provide an environment in which businesses can flourish. It's all there on the council's own website. Go look it up if you don't believe me. Regardless of that, this car park was already making a profit for the council, while others are not. It just wants more profit from it so it doesn't have to ask people to pay more in other wards.  

 

As for the traffic wardens, between a quarter and a third of all fines in the whole of Warrington come from this single car park. A town with over 200,000 residents covering 70 square miles and this one car park which isn't even in the town centre, provides this much revenue for the council and you conclude that it's not being treated any differently to anywhere else?

 banging-head-on-the-wall-smiley-emoticon

 

And where do the council spend this money? Anywhere but South Warrington. 

 

NO but I expect that several shops are now empty on stockton Heath as a result of the fall in trade.

 

So should the car parks in the town center should be free too, are you willing to pay more council tax?

 

I really find it hard to believe people are making so big a deal over 50 pence or a pound :roll:. People would not get fined if they paid the correct fee, although a machine that gives change would be fair. 

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You should ask Grey Man and Inky why they have so much interest in what happens in the North, it is to their posts I am responding.

 

 

I really do not get why the street parking schemes run at a loss, is it because of the cost of enforcement, If so are they really needed?

 

 

Which ones are council owned? I pretty sure the first one on your list is not, as I recently read the owners have stopped their clamping operations.

 

The second is a residential park is it not?

 

The other three are tiny, not very busy and would probably run at a loss

 

 

NO but I expect that several shops are now empty on stockton Heath as a result of the fall in trade.

 

So should the car parks in the town center should be free too, are you willing to pay more council tax?

 

I really find it hard to believe people are making so big a deal over 50 pence or a pound :roll:. People would not get fined if they paid the correct fee, although a machine that gives change would be fair. 

 

 

Again. It's not the amount that's the problem.  

 

My last word. 

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If as you say there's really no good reason for you to come to Stockton Heath in the day and if the last time you were here was 8 months ago (just to get your phone fixed) then I'm surprised you have so much to say about the village or so much interest in what happens over here.

You should ask Grey Man and Inky why they have so much interest in what happens in the North, it is to their posts I am responding.

 

 

Sorry Coffee, I didn't realise I wasn't allowed to make a comment or observation in reply to your comment if yours was in reply to something someone else had said rather than by me.  I wish people would tell me when the forum rules change  :lol:

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Oh dear... would you like one of my calming drinks Grey Man ? :lol:   I completely understand your frustration but re your 'last word' can you edit those out please as the *'d bits are against forum rules :wink:  I would have done it for you but I couldn't think of suitable word to replace it with :)

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'Bulls Eye' Middlec, land on the south side of the ship canal is a valuable asset however doubtful if they will build houses more likely to build apartments, whichever way the council wins again and the rate payers lose yet again!. :x grrrr!!

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Amazing isn't it how the topic of the closure of Sandy Lane tip has drifted so far off course on this forum!

 

A pity your mum isn't still with us Dizzy as she would have got a public meeting going, written to all the councillors, and organised a petition to be handed to the council. How I miss your mum!

As it happens, nothing will happen, no organised objection and the closure of Sandy Lane will become a reality at the end of July.

That's life nowadays, isn't it.

 

And I agree Algy, they are more likely to build apartments on the site rather than houses. 

 

And I have just received through the door the leaflet from the Labour councillor regarding the Sandy Lane update.

What utter bilge this man speaks.

But then there are people who probably believe it.

So be it.

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Yes MiddleC you are right my mum would have and while she wasn't always the person to instigate such things she was the sort of person who people sort of relied on in a way to actually get the 'team' moving.   It's funny how so many people are often strongly opposed to something but wait for someone else to hopefully make the first move.  I remember her standing up in a packed council meeting once and referring to them all as a 'bunch of tossers' 

Maybe she was right after all :wink:  (ps she actually thought a 'tosser' was a person who wasted money)

Like you say with no actual strong objections being raised, other than verbally by a great many who air their views when chatting and ranting to each other, then it probably will become a reality..... but then again considering the Lib Dems are supposed to be totally opposed to it and had news articles on here saying so and that they are  'calling it in' then where the bloody hell are they and why aren't they asking for public backing or organising a petition.

I guess they are just spouting hot air to appease the restless AGAIN !!

So how are you fixed for standing outside the tip collecting signatures at weekend MiddleC or chaining yourself to a skip in mum's memory,  I'm game if you are 8)

 

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So that's 2 of us within minutes and possible MiddleC so far so 'mum' says spread the word and get some more !!

'Mum' also says that it's Stockton Heath Festival on the 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th of July with the main events being held on Mill Lane Playing Field near the scout hut all day Saturday and Sunday with many hundreds of local people attending both days, other events associated with the festival are also being held in Grappenhall and Appleton again attended by many locals.

And then there's Stockton Heath Walking Day on the 12 July too.

If there IS going to be a petition raised by the Lib Dims or anyone else then these are the time to get out and get signatures :wink:   ... although admittedly with the WBCl only just announcing the closure just over a month before it is set to happen, and with the contract already in place with the new management company, in reality it is cutting it all too fine and they know that so it probably wont make a jot of difference  :evil: 

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It needs to be a poster (s) along the lines of "Does your local councillor object to this closure.......if not then don't let them count on your vote at the next election"  

St.H Festival, and perhaps Walking Day are good places to muster up names on a petition and publicise the cause, but, unfortunately I will be at a prior engagement and unable to attend.

But, as you say Dizzy, it's maybe too late and the closure is inevitable, but it's still worth making objections known. 

As for the LibDems.....very noticeable how quiet they are on this issue, isn't it?.

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It is very noticeable all of a sudden isn't it MiddleC.. might have known really though from past experiences :roll:  I like the poster idea :wink: 
Shame you are not available though but maybe you could try and rally some of the people up around your way to stop just talking and get together to do something. 

 

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just as an after thought as I was about to go to bed...

I wonder if people from Woolston have complained as after not only will they have to contend with us all going there too theirs is being cut from being open from 8am to 6pm during the week and will only be open from 10am until 4 pm now.  Are they happy about that I wonder ? 
 

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Sorry Coffee, I didn't realise I wasn't allowed to make a comment or observation in reply to your comment if yours was in reply to something someone else had said rather than by me.  I wish people would tell me when the forum rules change  :lol:

 

Sorry Dizzy, but your over reacting, i just answered your question, whty your throwing your toys out of your pram I am not sure. All I pointed out you can ask the same question of anyone else who engages in a debate.

 

Again. It's not the amount that's the problem.  

 

My last word. 

 

No did you not write this

 

As inkypete says, we have a council that sees Warrington as two separate places. The South as a generator of income, the North as the place it gets spent. 

 

You make claims but fail to back them up.

 

Sockton Heath is still busy, there are few if any shops that are empty and the car park is busy.

 

While the number of tickets issued seem high as pointed out, it reflects the high usage of the car park, I am guessing that as a percantage of cars issued with ticket it is higher on Cairo ST then on the forge; but you won't accept that will you?

 

The same with the tip, while it might be short sighted to close the tip in Stockton Heath and will strain the tip at Woolston, however if a tip needs to closed then the obviouse choice is the SH tip, it will inconvenience the fewest people and then there is land it stands on which is quite valuable.

 

And Grey Man maybe even it is not important to you what the amount is, I feel the small charge is factor!,

 

Bye

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Coffee

 

I said it repeatedly. Over and over. I've checked, just for you, not that it will make any difference. I've said it in 6 separate posts including on this page.  

 

Regarding the impact of the new pricing structure and warden regime, I'll take the word of the local businesses, medical centre and Parish Council over your inverted snobbery prejudiced guesswork any day. 

 

There are under 200 spaces at The Forge car park generating between a quarter and a third of all parking fines in the Borough. So you're essentially arguing that there are 600 - 700 car parking spaces across the whole of Warrington for your 'opinion' to have any merit. I don't think that's true somehow but then you don't have any facts to back up any of your opinions. It's blatantly obvious Stockton Heath is being deliberately targeted to generate revenue.    

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