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Dizzy

WBC to close Sandy Lane Tip, Stockton Heath - 1 August !!

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Coffee

 

Don't go putting words in my mouth now.  :P

 

And you need to buy a map. 

 

Dizzy

 

Would the results of a consultation that didn't go along with what the council wanted to do make a difference? Box ticking is all consultations are. 

 

And the reason for closing Stockton Heath rather than one of the other two tips is? Because it's South of the ship canal and over here we're only good to pay our council tax to be spent in the rest of Warrington. 

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And coffee, for your bonus question, what would have been the reaction of Warringtonians north of the canal if the council had spent millions on parks and leisure facilities in Appleton or Lymm? Do tell :P 

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Dizzy

 

Would the results of a consultation that didn't go along with what the council wanted to do make a difference? Box ticking is all consultations are. 

 

 

And the reason for closing Stockton Heath rather than one of the other two tips is? Because it's South of the ship canal and over here we're only good to pay our council tax to be spent in the rest of Warrington. 

Of course it would not have made any difference :wink:

 

Probably because it is smaller and they couldn't give two hoots that people have used it a lot for at least 50 years and also probably because, like the report mentions, they can't have that one open after 4pm during the winter because there are no flood lights and they cant put them in without planning permission because of the closeness of the nearby houses.

 

The proposed new opening times of the two remaining tips are ridiculous though.  Stockton Heath tip has been open until 8pm from Aril/May(ish) until the end of summer every for years and to be honest I didn't know the other two closed at 6pm.

 

Anyone who works won't be able to go to the tips during the week at all with the new times especially if they live in South Warrington.  Even if get home at say 5pm the chances of you then getting through bridge foot and across town to Gateworth or even over to Woolston at rush hour before they close at 6pm is very unlikely... in fact I wouldn't even bother trying as I dread to think how long it would take to get there and back !

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Ebay lol

 

The couple of times I needed to I have used Woolston, I use it so rarely that if it closed going to Great Sankey or elsewhere would not be an issue

 

Having said that I am surprised it costs anything to run a tip, a lot of things that seemed to be thrown away can be resold for recycling.

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Of course it would not have made any difference :wink:

 

Probably because it is smaller and they couldn't give two hoots that people have used it a lot for at least 50 years and also probably because, like the report mentions, they can't have that one open after 4pm during the winter because there are no flood lights and they cant put them in without planning permission because of the closeness of the nearby houses.

 

The proposed new opening times of the two remaining tips are ridiculous though.  Stockton Heath tip has been open until 8pm from Aril/May(ish) until the end of summer every for years and to be honest I didn't know the other two closed at 6pm.

 

Anyone who works won't be able to go to the tips during the week at all with the new times especially if they live in South Warrington.  Even if get home at say 5pm the chances of you then getting through bridge foot and across town to Gateworth or even over to Woolston at rush hour before they close at 6pm is very unlikely... in fact I wouldn't even bother trying as I dread to think how long it would take to get there and back !

 

So the logical solution is to drive along Loushers Lane, pull in and lob it all over the banks of the ship canal like a lot of people do already. The council can then pick it up from there at some point and Gary Skentelbery can have a nice view of the piles of rubbish collecting there from Cantilever Park.   :P

 

The important thing clearly is not to trouble the Labour voters of Penketh. Especially now that it's been moved south of the canal, according to Coffee.  

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No Police station where I live! Would you like the Police Stations at Stockton Heath and Lymm to shut as you say they do not provide any useful purpose?

 

Penketh is in the South of Warrington, virtually on the same line as Lymm

 

Penketh is north of both the ship canal and the Mersey, and its police station is north of any part of Lymm.

 

Warrington police station is also north of the water, and Risley is further north still.

 

Then there's the police office at the Golden Square.

 

Lymm has not had a police station for years, and the one in Stockton Heath is hardly ever open to the public.

 

And on top of all that, policing is paid for by the precept to Cheshire Constabulary and is nothing to do with WBC anyway.

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And coffee, for your bonus question, what would have been the reaction of Warringtonians north of the canal if the council had spent millions on parks and leisure facilities in Appleton or Lymm? Do tell :P 

 

What millions are being spent where, give examples?

 

The streets of Lymm and Stockton Heath do not look that dilapidated.

 

You talking as if you never cross the swing bridge

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Not me. I'm just very aware both of the inverted snobbery in Warrington and the political aspect of the way the council makes decisions about where money is spent. Also I know there are parts South of the canal that are no great shakes just like there are plenty of nice places in the North of the town. 

 

£30 million was spent on the Orford Hub. Whereas I think a coat of paint in Broomfields Leisure Centre would have some people up in arms about the expense.   

 

And you didn't answer the question but that doesn't matter because I know the answer. Here's another one for you. How come the council decided it needed to charge shoppers more for the car parks in Lymm and Stockton Heath when they were already making a profit, but not charge voters in Labour wards to park at their local shops? 

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So the logical solution is to drive along Loushers Lane, pull in and lob it all over the banks of the ship canal like a lot of people do already. The council can then pick it up from there at some point and Gary Skentelbery can have a nice view of the piles of rubbish collecting there from Cantilever Park.   :P

 

Ahh but Gary might spot us with his big camera and splash out mugs shots all over the front page news :lol:

 

Joking aside... that's another thing,  I often go out with my litter picker picking up rubbish over the fence along the canal bank because the council aren't allowed to do that bit because Peel Holdings own it and when people dump things in the backs I pick that up too.  So if it wont fit in my own bin as sometimes happens I'll have to drive all the way to one of the other tips now instead of just nipping to SH tip. 

I don't think I'll probably bother doing my bit to try to keep it a little tidier any more.  Someone else can do it..... I quit 8)

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Ahh but Gary might spot us with his big camera and splash out mugs shots all over the front page news :lol:

 

Joking aside... that's another thing,  I often go out with my litter picker picking up rubbish over the fence along the canal bank because the council aren't allowed to do that bit because Peel Holdings own it and when people dump things in the backs I pick that up too.  So if it wont fit in my own bin as sometimes happens I'll have to drive all the way to one of the other tips now instead of just nipping to SH tip. 

I don't think I'll probably bother doing my bit to try to keep it a little tidier any more.  Someone else can do it..... I quit 8)

 

A man/woman after my own heart. When I walk my dog there I always pick up litter. So much so that one day Cllr Jordan thanked me and asked if I wanted to have a hivis branded vest to mark me out as the sort of liberal, community-minded, halfwit, busybody who would do such a thing. I declined. 

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I hope you aren't politely inferring that I'm a 'liberal, community-minded, halfwit, busybody' grey_man :lol: 

As for Cllr CJ, well I'm surprised she didn't promptly grab your collected rubbish of you and hand you her camera to take a photo of her holding it all...... ouch was that a bit low, just basing it on past experiences and photo opportunities that all

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She didn't although Linda Dirir would have charged me for picking up the litter so that the money could be used in an attempt to create a litter-picking budget surplus across Warrington. And if Steve Broomhead had seen me, he'd have instigated a fact-finding mission for himself and some cronies colleagues to somewhere nice and hot to see how they deal with litter picking there, the sort of place you can tell racist jokes and nobody minds.   

 

Paul Kennedy would have observed quietly from the bushes, wondering whether to say anything or not, before deciding that discretion is the better part of valour, stepping back into the shadows, Stockton Heath's Harry Lime. Then Geoff Settle, Warrington's very own Radagast, would have emerged from the undergrowth, spoken to me in a friendly and open way until I said something he didn't like then disappeared without a word on a rabbit-drawn sled. Andy Farrall meanwhile is up a tree, twitching over the fast dial keys of his phone, pondering the development opportunities for Black Bear Park now that they've finished putting up an estate of indifferent housing next door, the word R-E-T-R-O-S-P-E-C-T-I-V-E running through his head, set to a Dolly Parton song.

 

I know they only had one bidder for the dumps contract but did they not think of breaking up the contract? They could have outsourced paper disposal to the in-house planning team who not only would have done a thorough job, but would have discreetly given up their weekends to get it done. 

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Personally, I'll adopt every tactic I can to increase the cost to WBC of disposing of my waste. I'll just put all my current tip waste in either my green bin or my black one - or, in fact, use my next door neighbours as well since he's out of the country for over six months of the year but still gets charged for a full years services!

 

Bricks, stones, rubble etc will go bit by bit into the black bins making sure that they are nice and heavy every time (but not so heavy that the poor binmen might chip a finger nail moving them). All this weight will then count against the council when they are measured and charged on landfill rubbish by weight.

 

Green stuff from the garden will go in the green bins when they can and I'll make sure they're out and have to be collected EVERY time there's a collection due - even if there's not much in there.

 

Bulk green stuff from cutting the hedges or whatever will probably go in the trailer to Dunham tip - which will increase Trafford's recycling percentages and benefit them not WBC.

 

The blue bin will be put out every time with just a few bits in it, so it will have to be collected but I'm not giving my recyclables to WBC for them to sell on if they ain't going to provide me with a local tip.

 

If everyone locally did this then WBC would miss all it's waste targets by a mile, and might even have to have a rethink.

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Personally, I'll adopt every tactic I can to increase the cost to WBC of disposing of my waste. I'll just put all my current tip waste in either my green bin or my black one - or, in fact, use my next door neighbours as well since he's out of the country for over six months of the year but still gets charged for a full years services!

 

Bricks, stones, rubble etc will go bit by bit into the black bins making sure that they are nice and heavy every time (but not so heavy that the poor binmen might chip a finger nail moving them). All this weight will then count against the council when they are measured and charged on landfill rubbish by weight.

 

Green stuff from the garden will go in the green bins when they can and I'll make sure they're out and have to be collected EVERY time there's a collection due - even if there's not much in there.

 

Bulk green stuff from cutting the hedges or whatever will probably go in the trailer to Dunham tip - which will increase Trafford's recycling percentages and benefit them not WBC.

 

The blue bin will be put out every time with just a few bits in it, so it will have to be collected but I'm not giving my recyclables to WBC for them to sell on if they ain't going to provide me with a local tip.

 

If everyone locally did this then WBC would miss all it's waste targets by a mile, and might even have to have a rethink.

 

That wouldn't happen for a while. Now that they've gone to fortnightly bin collections and are closing recycling facilities and dumps in non-Labour voting wards, they still won't care if the town ends up knee-deep in fly-tipped rubbish because they can always prop themselves up on to the nearest of the 20mph road signs that has no other purpose but which they're spending hundreds of thousands on and blame 'Government cuts'.  

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Penketh is north of both the ship canal and the Mersey, and its police station is north of any part of Lymm.

 

Warrington police station is also north of the water, and Risley is further north still.

 

Then there's the police office at the Golden Square.

 

Lymm has not had a police station for years, and the one in Stockton Heath is hardly ever open to the public.

 

And on top of all that, policing is paid for by the precept to Cheshire Constabulary and is nothing to do with WBC anyway.

Yes Penketh is North of Lymm only just, since when has the MSC or the river been any sort of boarder accept in the heads of some.

 

Is there no Police station in lymm???? Sure there was one!

 

I am sure that Warrington contribute to the budget of Cheshire Police.

 

 

Not me. I'm just very aware both of the inverted snobbery in Warrington and the political aspect of the way the council makes decisions about where money is spent. Also I know there are parts South of the canal that are no great shakes just like there are plenty of nice places in the North of the town. 

 

£30 million was spent on the Orford Hub. Whereas I think a coat of paint in Broomfields Leisure Centre would have some people up in arms about the expense.   

 

And you didn't answer the question but that doesn't matter because I know the answer. Here's another one for you. How come the council decided it needed to charge shoppers more for the car parks in Lymm and Stockton Heath when they were already making a profit, but not charge voters in Labour wards to park at their local shops? 

 

Putting aside the right or wrongs of building the Jubilee Center where would you build it? It is accessible to a lot more people where it is, had it been built in Stockton Heath or Lymm. There is no pool in Birchwood for example (I don't think).

 

Your question about parks, there is Walton Gardens in the South of Warrington which is far superior to anything we have here in the North. Orford Park used to be just a field really and although they seemed to take for ever digging it up a few years ago, they have not made any improvements apart for the childrens facilities in my view.

 

Your free to come and use the facilities at the Jubilee center, you do not have to live in the North, just as I am free to use Walton Gardens.

 

As for the car parking, if I recall it used to be free so how could it make a profit.

 

If you feel so hard done by, move!

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You're completely missing the point. It's about the council's unmistakable different attitude towards parts of the town depending on how they vote and the idea that they might be 'wealthy' areas. You asked me for an example of spending North of the ship canal and I gave you it. Maybe Orford does deserve tens of millions of investment and I hope it works in terms of improving the area. But you can't come up with any significant investment South of the canal because there simply is none. What we have instead is the constant withdrawal of services and facilities coupled with aggressive ways of extracting more money from us to be spent elsewhere. We're now in a position where the council is not even willing to provide basic services in one part of town while protecting them elsewhere. 

 

Interesting that you raise Walton Gardens because the council were so desperate to sell that off, they invented some fictitious accounts that made it look like the only option, held clandestine meetings with developers which they covered up and even then only backtracked on the matter when embarrassed into it by local people. An all too familiar story with WBC.

 

The car parking issue is the big giveaway however. The car parks in Lymm and Stockton Heath have always charged so that is how they made a 'surplus'. What they've done is change the pricing structure to extract more cash, coupled with aggressive parking wardens who constantly patrol a pretty small car park in the case of Stockton Heath and slap tickets on if people are more than a few seconds late back to the car. Even or especially if they've been to an appointment at the medical centre for an appointment over which they have no control.

 

The killer is they have conflated the parking function across the whole of the borough and then set it an objective of making a surplus across the board. Lymm and Stockton Heath already make a profit but car parks in Labour wards and on-street parking North of the canal don't so wouldn't it be logical to look at ways of making a surplus in those areas too? Well no, obviously not. Get Lymm and Stockton Heath to pay is the attitude. The person behind this farce is Linda Dirir who is the colleague of the man behind the decision to close Stockton Heath CRC rather than one that serves Labour constituents and who has also just committed the council to spending hundreds of thousands of pounds on useless road signs.

 

And now we have this. The council have helped to gridlock the town and that situation is only going to get worse so anybody in the South who needs to make more than one journey to the tip, for example when moving house, doing some DIY or the garden had better allocate a whole day to the task. And the reason why the council haven't kept a tip open on both sides of the town so that more people have easy access? Because it's political and the people in the South of the town are cash cows, not people of an equal standing to those in other areas.     

 

So don't give me the 'move' thing. Are you suggesting that we should just accept a council that denudes services in one part of town in favour of others because of how they vote? Because if we had a Tory council which decided that money should be raised in Orford and spent in Appleton I think a lot of people would have a say about it and rightly so. 

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Yes Penketh is North of Lymm only just, since when has the MSC or the river been any sort of boarder accept in the heads of some.

 

The River Mersey was for centuries the border between Cheshire and Lancashire. It only ceased to be in the local government reorganisation of 1974 when the Cheshire villages of Lymm, Stockton Heath, Appleton,Thelwall and Grappenhall were made part of  Warrington, and Warrington was in turn moved from Lancashire to Cheshire. 

Is there no Police station in lymm???? Sure there was one!

 

There used to be a police office, but it was never permanently manned and even that closed to the public at least 10 years ago. I think both the plastic and woodentop varieties of coppers do still use it for skiving and having a brew when they get lost and end up in the village.

 

I am sure that Warrington contribute to the budget of Cheshire Police.

 

Nope, paid for by a separate precept on your council tax bill - same as the Fire Authority. 

 

If you feel so hard done by, move!

 

If any significant number of people did that there'd soon be an outcry about "pricing locals out of their own areas"!

 

My preferred option is as I've stated, that the WHOLE of Lymm, Stockton Heath etc do indeed move - out of Warrington's control and back into Cheshire proper.

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Paul Kennedy would have observed quietly from the bushes, wondering whether to say anything or not, before deciding that discretion is the better part of valour, stepping back into the shadows, Stockton Heath's Harry Lime.

Now then credit where credit's due.  Quite recently, and in the past too, there have been various issues around here that I have tried to resolve by alerting the council by email, their online reporting facility and also by telephone.

Despite my best attempts and follow up calls etc some of these issues seemed to just be ignored or passed from pillar to post never actually getting actioned.  Various reasons over the delays or lack of action are often given and it gets very frustrating at times.

 

On quite a few occasions over the years when I have tried and tried and tried without success I have phoned Paul Kennedy in person (his phone number is freely available online).  Each time I have found him to be most helpful, very easy to talk to and without fail he has  ALWAYS got on the case straight away and within no time at all action has been taken by the relevant department and the issues have been resolved.  

 

Infact I'm beginning to wonder if it wouldn't just be easier to ring him in the first place rather than trying get anything done via the councils preferred methods of contact and reporting facility.  

 

So THANK YOU once again Cllr Paul Kennedy !

 

PS before anyone presumes I'm just a conservative party supporter spouting my support... I'm not one, in fact far from it these days.... but in the same breath I'm not so shallow as to not give credit to anyone from any party when it's due.

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.... since when has the MSC or the river been any sort of boarder accept in the heads of some.

Coffee, have you never looked at all the older maps of the area as they show that the boarder was not just imaginary .  They are fascinating and like Inky quite rightly says the Parliamentary and Municipal Borough Boundary of Lancashire and Cheshire always ran right down the centre of the route of the River Mersey. Everything to the north of the River Mersey was Lancashire and everything to the south was Cheshire.

PS the Mersey route did change slightly when the Manchester Ship Canal was built but the boundary remained.

 

Not sure what on earth that's got to do with Stockton Heath tip closing but I thought I'd say anyway :lol:

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If you are interested in all the separate local wards in Warrington though and how many people live in each one, the number of homes, the ward size in HA, lifestyle profiles,  blah blah blah check the pdf's out on the councils link below... The number of people and houses will have increased since these with all the new housing developments though.

http://www.warrington.gov.uk/info/200358/facts_and_figures/46/local_ward_information

I never knew so many people lived in Warrington South so clearly it does need a tip and more facilities

Happy reading
 

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Now then credit where credit's due.  Quite recently, and in the past too, there have been various issues around here that I have tried to resolve by alerting the council by email, their online reporting facility and also by telephone.

Despite my best attempts and follow up calls etc some of these issues seemed to just be ignored or passed from pillar to post never actually getting actioned.  Various reasons over the delays or lack of action are often given and it gets very frustrating at times.

 

On quite a few occasions over the years when I have tried and tried and tried without success I have phoned Paul Kennedy in person (his phone number is freely available online).  Each time I have found him to be most helpful, very easy to talk to and without fail he has  ALWAYS got on the case straight away and within no time at all action has been taken by the relevant department and the issues have been resolved.  

 

Infact I'm beginning to wonder if it wouldn't just be easier to ring him in the first place rather than trying get anything done via the councils preferred methods of contact and reporting facility.  

 

So THANK YOU once again Cllr Paul Kennedy !

 

PS before anyone presumes I'm just a conservative party supporter spouting my support... I'm not one, in fact far from it these days.... but in the same breath I'm not so shallow as to not give credit to anyone from any party when it's due.

 

I've made tea for Paul so I know what you mean. But he is also as I describe - an observer of things 

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front page news re the tip closure. 

http://www.warrington-worldwide.co.uk/articles/18558/1/Town-Hall-call-in-on-Sandy-Lane-tip-closure-plan/Page1.html

Will calling it in for scrutiny make any difference now though seeing as though contracts with the new company who are taking over the management of all the sites on 1 August will have probably already been signed and sealed ?

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OK, firstly Inky and Dizzy, the words you used is "USED TO BE", not any more. I also do not know how the elite in the villages of the south pay their bills but I just pay my rates to the council who decide how much is spent on what.

 

Let us assume that such a boarder exists and there is a South Warrington South of the MSC

 

I understand the reason why that location is closing, find it hard they can not find another. However if a tip has to close which would you close?

 

The south of warrington ie: Stockton Heath, Appleton, Grappenhall, Lymm has about 40,000, people living in these areas according to the link Dizzy provided in a town of about 203,000, lets call it 50,000 people living in the south of the canal, that leaves 75% of people living in the North of the town 

 

While I I agree on the parking front to a point, the charges are not exactly high and if I want to park in the center in the North I have to pay too

 

Sorry Grey Man, but you come over such a snob, 

 

Maybe Orford does deserve tens of millions of investment and I hope it works in terms of
 improving the area
.

 

Orford is a perfectly OK area, just because my neighbours might not be Doctors, lawyers or company directors does not mean the area needs improving! I choose to live here, I have a four bedroom house, large garden, drive while in Stockton Heath I could barely afford tiny terrace with no parking or garden

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OK, firstly Inky and Dizzy, the words you used is "USED TO BE", not any more. I also do not know how the elite in the villages of the south pay their bills but I just pay my rates to the council who decide how much is spent on what.

 

Let us assume that such a boarder exists and there is a South Warrington South of the MSC

 

I understand the reason why that location is closing, find it hard they can not find another. However if a tip has to close which would you close?

 

The south of warrington ie: Stockton Heath, Appleton, Grappenhall, Lymm has about 40,000, people living in these areas according to the link Dizzy provided in a town of about 203,000, lets call it 50,000 people living in the south of the canal, that leaves 75% of people living in the North of the town 

 

While I I agree on the parking front to a point, the charges are not exactly high and if I want to park in the center in the North I have to pay too

 

Sorry Grey Man, but you come over such a snob, 

 

 

Orford is a perfectly OK area, just because my neighbours might not be Doctors, lawyers or company directors does not mean the area needs improving! I choose to live here, I have a four bedroom house, large garden, drive while in Stockton Heath I could barely afford tiny terrace with no parking or garden

 

Well there you go. I think this forum works best when people aren't personal.I'm pointing out inverted snobbery in others and a political class within the council who think that the people who don't vote for them don't deserve services or investment. As I've already said, I'd be against it if it worked the other way too and you calling me a 'snob' just confirms why you think the people of South Warrington don't deserve the same facilities or services as those in the North. 

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