Big Bus Changes

[inky pete]

But the public transport on offer simply isn't available when and where needed to suit the workforce.

 

Even within Warrington, the major employment areas are very poorly served by bus services - and what routes there are all come from the bus station, not from where people live.

 

Buses may be ok to get people into the town centre to do a bit of shopping - provided they don't need to get anything particularly heavy or bulky - but people just plain don't shop exclusively in the town centre any more!

 

I'd even suggest that are more people present and more money is actually spent in the town centre at night in all the bars and restaurants than in the shops during the day. So, if the night time economy of the town centre is such a major revenue generator, where are the night buses to serve these customers and staff?

[Davy51]

Well said !

[Coffee]

Me too agrees with Inky, on this issue anyway

[inky pete]

But you still seem to think that pretty much everyone could use the bus for work.

 

So tell me, how do I get to Speke, Birchwood, Halifax or Fleetwood for 7am on the bus??????

[Davy51]

Obviously ,a bus is no good for far flung out of town places or for carrying large amounts of work related items, but within the borough ,which is where buses should be taking traffic off the roads, is what we are discussing. But the buses need to be able to  attract customers out of cars & onto public transport by providing an attractive & comprehensive service.

[inky pete]

But only a relatively small proportion of Warrington residents work within the borough, and an even smaller proportion of the jobs within the borough are filled by Warrington residents.

 

So how would even a comprehensive, all-singing, all-dancing, borough wide bus service help people to travel to work?

[Evil Sid]

The thought occurs on how the bus driver gets to work. if he is on the first shift he can hardly get the bus can he, at least not until he gets to work that is.

 

My job can entail me goingt o preston or manchester when i have to work. not a problem as regards busses as I get picked up close tp my home by the driver of the vehcle that I am working for. BUT I work on a bus, albeit a minibus. so I can say that i probably use buses more than most. (well technically.)

[Davy51]

Somebody must work within the borough  even if they are from out of town so how about park & ride schemes. But all this ground about bus services was covered weeks ago. Park & ride could even apply to shoppers  & not just at Christmas but all year round to try & ease traffic problems within the town. There is a larger than normal Aldi being built at the Sandy Lane junction which will add even more problems to Winwick Road traffic even before the enlarged Alban Retail Park is finished.

[inky pete]

Park and ride gets people into town or city centres, it's just another example of transport based on a central hub.

 

Relatively few of the people who work in the borough work within walking distance of the bus station. What we need is transport based on a network of alternative routes so that people can get directly from point A to point B without having to pass through (and probably stop, wait, and change vehicles) at point C.

 

Cars can do that, buses and trains can't.

[Davy51]

That is very true & you know ,when you weigh up, there is a major difference in the way employment areas & residential estates are put together these days ....at one time, when  a town like Warrington was developing, the factory was built first & then houses built for the workforce  & that would be the format throughout many areas of the town so the workers were close to the factory whereas now a hundred people off one estate could work at one hundred different employers throughout the town. Ideal for developing the need for individual car ownership as a necessity to employment.

[inky pete]

It does have the advantage of giving us all a choice over what work we do, where we do it and who we do it for though.

 

No more entering the factory your Dad works at as soon as you turn 14 and doing the same job he did for 50 odd years until you either drop dead or retire.

[AdrianR]

From the BBC today

 

Transport industry body CPT, which represents major bus operators including Arriva, FirstGroup, and Stagecoach, said that there would be "absolutely no justification" for having bus operations regulated by local transport authorities.

"Time and again the evidence shows that where bus services are under the control of cash-strapped local authorities fares are higher, the market is less stable, services are being lost, and passenger satisfaction rates are lower," said CPT chief executive Simon Posner.

 

Sound familiar?

[Davy51]

But they would say that ,they want the routes themselves ,& why should the CPT lean lean towards private companies instead of ensuring a level playing field ?

[observer]

You can either have - "private" companies operating to maximise profits for their shareholders, in which case the customer pays OR you can have "public" services operating to provide a service, in which case the taxpayer pays. The former is compromised when they get too greedy; the latter when they get too needy (IE: inadequately funded). 

[Lt Kije]

Or, you adopt a business model designed to stimulate demand and increase your number of customers.

 

If a bus route only has one bus per hour then the only people who will use it are those who have the time to hang around for up to an hour at each end of their journey. Increase the frequency to four per hour or more and suddenly people will forget all about timetables and hanging around time, they'll just go to the bus stop knowing that the wait isn't going to be very long and hop on the next bus to arrive. It goes from being a question of planning journeys and making life work around the vagaries of the bus service to one of treating the buses as a "turn up and go" service which takes you from where you are to where you want to be without fuss - as a bus service should do.

 

Four buses per hour on a route will easily generate more than four times as many passengers as one per hour, so the bus company actually makes MORE money.

 

It ain't rocket science, but apparently is far beyond the capabilities or ambitions of those running Warrington's buses.

 

Can I take it inky, that you would vote for an increase in council tax to pay for more buses to run, and don't say the increase in passengers would pay, because I think over the years it has already been tried and failed. At the end of the day it's a bus service, do services have to make a profit. I agree it would be nice if they could, but they don't have to do they?

[Evil Sid]

so how does the £1.00 to town bus make money then. Travels the same route from dallam to town and back as the council busses. and it is a double decker which I would guess is less fuel efficient than the super duper council ones. yet they charge £1.00 from anywhere along the route, which even from the stop opposite the hospital is still cheaper than the council ones.

 

Think they may charge pensioners so that could possibly help towards a profit or at least not a loss.

[Steve Parish]

You can either have - "private" companies operating to maximise profits for their shareholders, in which case the customer pays OR you can have "public" services operating to provide a service, in which case the taxpayer pays. The former is compromised when they get too greedy; the latter when they get too needy (IE: inadequately funded). 

It's more complicated than that. Rather like firms paying low wages with a taxpayer subsidy (e.g/ by tax credits) a "commercial" bus company can play the system and boost profits. From a Parliamentary report in 2006: "We had evidence that, under the current system, operators are abandoning unprofitable routes which are nevertheless used and are necessary links for communities to work, social and leisure facilities. This forces local authorities to take the routes over and to issue a tender for their operation. Often, an operator who cannot make a commercial success of such a route will apply for the subsidised, tendered route. This practice can be particularly frustrating for a local authority when routes are being abandoned when they are simply

less profitable, rather than unprofitable. Services are withdrawn in order to maximise profits for the operator by shrinking their network and concentrating on the highest revenue-raising routes, at the expense of the travelling public."

[observer]

Not complicated at all - if you operate a company for profit, you will operate in areas with the highest density customer base, thus rural services will die on the vine, unless public services pick up the ball, and run at a loss. So, if you want "services", we (the tax-payer) need to subsidise them.

[Bazj]

The bus services are a rip off... my mates wife was travelling to the dentist in town from her house in Callands with two young daughters. She doesn't normally use the bus and had £8.00 in her purse.

 

When she got on the bus she asked for one adult and two child returns.... she was told it would be £9.60.

 

She asked how much for a family day rover....£11.00 

 

Just then a lady already on the bus mentioned that she could get an adult day rover (which included for two kids) the bus driver told her that was £8.00....... WHY DIDN'T HE SAY THAT IN THE FIRST PLACE INSTEAD OF TRYING TO RIP HER OFF?????

 

Is it any wonder no one is using this over-priced joke of a service?

 

 

In the recent price hikes, my oldest son who lives in Penketh and works in Stockton Heath has seen his monthly pass rise from £56.00 a month to £84.00 a month..... I could run a car on that!!

 

The bus company should be sold off and taken out of the control of the idiots that are currently running it

[Bazj]

Found this and adapted it slightly....

 

 

 

A GROUP of New York mobsters has visited the town to get tips on exploitation from Network Warrington.

 

The gangsters expressed their admiration for the way buses operate in Warrington, which they consider to be the most beautiful racket ever devised.

 

‘Wise guy’ Tommy Logan said: “One day it’s £56 for a monthly pass. The next day – boom – it’s almost double the price & nobody asks any questions."

 

“Then they got other stuff like "Singles, Day Returns, Town Centre Fares, Breezers and something called a "Westy Way" just to make it real confusing."

 

“Poor travelling schmucks don’t know what ticket to buy so they just get the most expensive one, it’s nice.... Real nice..... and the drivers don't help either; they are just happy to sell the dearest ticket and keep the scam rolling"

 

“Monthly commuter tickets are the sweetest part of the operation because there’s no other way for people to get to work. Plus they got  ‘Day Rovers, Adult Rovers, Child Rovers, Family Rovers grift that can work out more expensive than the regular fare."

 

“All this and they don’t even bother to fix the toilets in the bus station”

 

“You know the best thing? If they want more money, they just ask the council. Cook up some nonsense about having to buy Eco buses to comply with some dumbass EU regulations then blow the loot on women and horses.”

 

A cloud has appeared on the horizon however which threatens this perfect scam; "Pound to Town" buses.... but 'Wise Guy Tommy Logan' soon dismissed this as a mere short term threat.... "Da guy running this Pound to Town mob will soon be sleeping with the fishes...."......"Nothing is going to threaten this scam in the long term; that much I can tell you"

 

 

[observer]

   If you want a "service" AND low fares; you have to subsidise it - simples.

[AdrianR]

Other areas are doing it without the fus and issues that Warrington have.

 

Halton - Day ticket £3.80, Weekly £16.

Warrington - £5.50 / £24.

 

Never mind Merseytravel. Got 1 Adult and 2 Child all zones saveaways for £9.50 during the hols. Trains busses and ferries.

 

Its this sort of comparison right on our doorstep that causes the astonishment. It can only be bad management thats caused the current mess.