Farage V Clegg -

[Lt Kije]

Satellite manufacturing in the UK, do you mean COM Dev, the Canadian company that have also set up in Cambridge Baz

 

I can't think of any British Television manufactures, I am sure we make Yachts but not in anything like the volumes we need to lead exports, an I am sure we don't make enough formula one cars to replace what Nissan make in Sunderland , And on Trains, the last British Manufacturer no longer exists, bought out and shut down, The biggest train company left in the UK are Bombardier and they are Canadian, and they do not export. If you were talking about Hitachi, they will be manufacturing trains in Sunderland for the UK, so not exporting. When it comes to Planes I think you are talking about BEA systems, and the Euro Fighter is made in collaboration with our European partners, I won't bother with motorcycles as I don't no any British manufactures, but I think I have done enough to sink completely your argument. And yes the EU are striving for a level playing field, and yes they are not their yet, but they are working towards it.

 

Leaving the EU would be a disaster, for young people in this Country as there would be even less jobs, and this export crap to the rest of the world is just that crap, most foreign company's invest in the UK, because it gives them access to the single market.

 

 

[Lt Kije]

This from Open Europe, A think tank

 

Membership of the EU customs union, and the free movement of goods, remains beneficial to UK firms exporting to the EU. The UK has been instrumental in developing the Single Market in goods and promoting EU enlargement, which has helped to generate new markets, increased competition and reduced costs.

The EU remains by far the biggest destination for UK trade in goods, but for exports in services the picture is less positive. Services account for 71% of total EU GDP but only 3.2% of this is a result of intra-EU trade. The failure to liberalise services within the Single Market and member states’ reluctance to compete on the global stage in this sector means the EU is punching below its weight in global talks on services, to the detriment of UK interests.

Plainly, trade is only one part of the equation when it comes to assessing the costs and benefits of EU membership. There is a value to the UK’s ability to influence not simply the terms of trade but also EU foreign policy and enlargement.

However, the price of membership remains high. Many of these costs are not directly related to trade, such as the UK’s contribution to the EU budget, the loss of national control over key political decisions that affect the British economy and society, and an increasing regulatory burden. Growing frustration with these costs has led some to suggest the following alternative trading arrangements outside the EU:

• The ‘Norwegian’ option or EEA membership: This would free the UK from the CAP, EU fishing rules, EU-wide regional policy, and reduce its budget contribution. However, while guaranteeing access to the Single Market in services and goods, outside the customs union, access for goods would be subject to complex rules of origin and Britain would still be subject to EU regulations on employment and financial services but with no formal ability to shape them.

• The ‘Swiss’ option or free trade agreement: The Swiss-EU bilateral deal, without the CAP, EU fishing rules, EU-wide regional policy, and reduced financial contribution, offers more sovereignty and less EU regulation. However, the UK’s access to the Single Market would be dependent on the deal it could negotiate with the EU – the Swiss deal currently excludes the vast majority of services, including financial services.

• The ‘Turkey+’ option: The UK would continue to benefit from full access to the EU’s Single Market in goods by remaining in customs union with the EU but Britain would be bound by any external deals that the EU strikes in trade in goods without any formal way of shaping them. A separate deal on services would be required to maintain UK access to the Single Market in these sectors. It would be free from EU social and employment regulation, the CAP, CFP and EU-wide regional policy.

• The clean break ‘WTO’ option: If the UK left the EU without securing a version of the options above, the UK could fall back on its World Trade Organisation membership. This would see some exports facing relatively high tariffs (i.e. 10% on car exports) and market access for services would be limited.

From purely a trade perspective, these options all come with major drawbacks and EU membership remains the best option for the UK. Additionally, contrary to popular belief, all the alternatives to EU membership, except the ‘WTO option’, would require negotiation with and the agreement of the other member states, which would come with unpredictable political and economic risks.

This means that negotiating a new UK relationship with Europe outside the EU Treaties, i.e. leaving the EU, would present similar difficulties to renegotiating membership terms while remaining a member of the EU.

[P J]

Oi, you mither the harris off of other posters who avoid stuff and you are as guilty yourself.  I already told you what Britain exports but I expanded on the list, whiskey, tartan, haggis, tweed, oil, shortbread biscuits in pretty tins, Simon Cowell  and inferior weapons.

[Bazj]

Kije,

 

you seem to think it is impossible for us to leave and to continue trading with anyone inside the EU curtain....

 

The country we tend to import the most from is Germany; on average about £40bn a year... we also export to Germany over £25bn. Now I don't know about you, but if I was Germany, I would want to continue to export my £40bn every year because jobs in Germany depend on the exports to the UK and if it means that we have to carry on buying £25bn from the UK to do so, I would guess that is what will happen.

 

The US is our single biggest export market; over £31bn in 2011.... China is our 9th biggest export market in 2011, but the 2011 figure is up by 20% on the previous year.... China and America could well be our two biggest export markets in the next 5 years...

 

 

Every EU country we export to sells us more back in return; so why would it be in their interests to sever ties with the UK and risk job losses in their own countries? Remember Concorde? It was (and still is) the worlds most technically advanced aircraft ever built and was a partnership between us and the French and done before the EU superstate was ever thought of.

 

The billions we hand out to Europe every year to allow the poor countries to reach a level where they can take jobs from us could be used to attract business to the UK and keep the jobs here; we could support our own industries (like the French and Germans do) and reduce business taxes.... We can still offer attractive incentives to Nissan and others to keep them here; it just requires creatrive thinking.... something which the EU hangerson don't seem willing to do because they are all too scared to think for themselves anymore

 

12 out of the top 20 countries we export to are NOT in the EU and these markets could be exploited for our own interests; not for the interests of former Eastern Soviet countries who beg money year on year. The opportunities are endless, except as we are tied into the EU monolith, we have little or no say in these areas and it is getting less with every signature we put on the treaties we sign....

[Lt Kije]

Baz please read my previous post, it sets out the deals various Country's have made with the EU to gain access to the single market, if we leave the EU, our exports will to other EU Countries will cost more. And as to your previous post, about satellite, TV, yacht companies ect, do you now realise many are multi national owned, and are mostly here for access to the single market?

[Bazj]

Kije, you look at things as though we are totally tied into this EU scam, with no way out.... I look at it differently; that countries are just as much bound to trade with us as a single entity as they are if we are part of a club supporting countless leeching eastern European countries who will stab us in the back at some point once we have brought their economies up to a better standard.... either way, we get shafted so better to use our money to further our own ends than give money away to countries who will ultimately benefit by taking business from us in the long term

 

We will never agree, but I figure the billions of pounds a year are better going towards feathering our own nests, whereas you think we should just give all the money away and allow cheap labour to flood our markets and eventually allow businesses to up sticks and move to Romania where everything is cheaper.....The UK is not Switzerland, Norway or Turkey; we have a million times more to offer the world than penknives and kebabs!

[Lt Kije]

The British economy depends on trade, I have provided you with the costs of trade into the EU if we are outside, the EU like it or not are our biggest trading partner, better to be in and change it than be out, if you are out like Norway you have no say and still have to pay into the EU.

[asperity]

A bit of information for you:

 

Highest Value UK Export Products

Below are the 20 highest value export products shipped from the UK in 2013. Shown within brackets is the 6-digit harmonized tariff system code for each item.

1. Semi-manufactured gold: US$76,589,824,000 (HTS code 710813)
2. Crude petroleum oils: $28,955,478,000 (270900)
3. Other medications in dosage: $16,776,851,000 (300490)
4. Mid-sized automobiles with piston engine: $14,957,419,000 (870323)
5. Other petroleum oils: $13,106,305,000 (271019)
6. Light petroleum oils: $12,723,180,000 (271012)
7. Other aircraft parts: $11,526,795,000 (880330)
8. Turbo-jets: $9,478,026,000 (841112)
9. Turbo-jet parts: $9,345,696,000 (841191)
10. Larger automobiles with piston engine: $8,642,891,000 (870324)
11. Whiskies: $6,840,295,000 (220830)
12. Mid-sized automobiles with diesel engine: $6,095,672,000 (870332)
13. Blood plasma including antisera: $4,945,205,000 (300210)
14. Unfinished diamonds: $4,915,618,000 (710231)
15. Larger automobiles with diesel engine: $3,786,633,000 (870333)
16. Jewelry: $3,461,802,000 (711319)
17. Natural gas (gaseous state): $3,363,132,000 (271121)
18. Hand-rendered paintings, drawings and pastels: $2,982,237,000 (970110)
19. Cellphones and smartphones: $2,702,673,000 (851712)
20. Unfinished silver: $2,691,933,000 (710691)

Among these highly lucrative exports, the leading increase in export sales from 2009 to 2013 was 733.4% for blood plasma including antisera.

In second place were UK’s unfinished silver exports, ahead 548.3% from 2009.

Larger automobiles with diesel engine posted a respectable 219.3% gain over the same period.

[asperity]

And a bit more. We actually export about 50% to the EU and 50% to the rest of the world.

 

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/dcp171778_349216.pdf

[asperity]

The way things are going the EU will be redundant anyway as the WTO takes over all regulation.

 

[Dizzy]

Nice to see you back on here at last Asp after you exported yourself

[observer]

Just to add: - by far the biggest UK "export" are financial services, brings in about £9billion in earnings - the oligarchs require somewhere to stow their ill gotten gains, so nowt to do with the EU !

[Lt Kije]

Nice list Asp,

 

But some on that list we have imported, diamonds uncut and gold stand out, along with mobile phones.

[observer]

When we had the Commonwealth to trade with, we imported lots of raw materials, and as the workshop of the world, we transposed them into finished products for export - a reciprocal situation.  The EU has similar economic profiles to our own and are thus in competition with us.

[asperity]

Nice list Asp, But some on that list we have imported, diamonds uncut and gold stand out, along with mobile phones.

You could say the same thing about every item on the list, so what is your point given that it is a list of exports not imports?

[Lt Kije]

Unfinished diamonds ??? Could one assume brought to the UK, and then sold out of the UK to gain assess to the single market?

[asperity]

One can assume whatever one wants.

[observer]

So why do "unfinished diamonds" come to the UK, rather than straight to Holland etc?  Could it be better workmanship !

[Bazj]

So why do "unfinished diamonds" come to the UK, rather than straight to Holland etc?  Could it be better workmanship !

 

don't let Kije hear you saying that we can do something in Britain better than somewhere in Europe; he'll bombard you with "facts" about how you are wrong.... but of course won't answer any questions you throw at him in return

[asperity]

Anything that is imported then exported obviously has had some value added to it otherwise it would be a pointless exercise.

[Lt Kije]

Or it could be that a lot of the South Aftican diamond mines, are owned by mining companies with offices over here, or are owned by UK companies , so come here first to access the single market. I know little about diamonds but I would think if you can get them into the EU without paying the tarif and then selling them on in the single market would be worth doing.

[asperity]

I too know nothing about the diamond trade, but assume that there would be import duty payable to bring diamonds into the UK from South Africa, and that duty would be the same across the EU. So there would only be a gain if the diamonds were made more valuable in the UK before exporting them to another EU country.

[observer]

So the EU imposes tariffs on goods from Africa, reducing their earnings from trade;  then shells out £billions in overseas aid - crazy.

[Lt Kije]

Most of the World does Obs, including the USA, leaving the EU, would not change that, it could actually get worse, depending what industry's the UK wanted to protect.

[Lt Kije]

asp

Not at all, if the company was registered, in a EU state say the UK, the duties would be less or non at all

 

That's why a lot of companies from outside the EU, set up in the UK, to gain access