Farage V Clegg -

[P J]

Yet more infantile name calling from PJ;  if it were footy, he'd get a red card, anywhere else, a broken nose ! Don't worry, your safe on here, one just has to ignore you.  Kije - google it !

I can only assume you have been at the sanatogen again.  Where the hell did that diatribe come from ?  Have a word with yourself or Matron old timer, you seem to be rather rattled lol

[Lt Kije]

As i thought Obs you have no idea, what British products are traded with who

 

And just to make it a bit tougher Obs, how many of our top exporting companies are UK owned, i.e. the car industry

 

Can you give me some British owned companies that export????? 

 

Ill start you off BAE Systems

 

Im sure in your plan, when you thought about trade agreements and how single handily they would save the UK, you took into account the British companies that would save us, just give me some

[P J]

Whiskey, Tartan, Oil and shortbread biscuits

[Bazj]

What a pile of crap Baz, all Countries have to trade, even North Korea, your last statement just proves how little you actually know about trade and trading around the World

 

exactly what does North Korea trade? and with who?.... I'm guessing China, South Korea and the likes....

 

The majority of the EU countries bring nothing to the table at all; except the begging bowl for the top 5 to fill up, until we have given them enough to modernise their industries to take all the work back with them.... at which point, Putin will probably invade and take it all over again.

 

and your last statement just shows how blinkered you are when it come to the "do no wrong" EU..... it is corrupt, unfair and totally undemocratic

[Lt Kije]

We both live in a capitalist society Baz, We trade to get the things we cannot produce and to make money, And money makes a capitalist society go round. access to a free market as very good advantages when it comes to trade and trade deals

[observer]

I presume by "free market", you mean one without tariff barriers like the EU ?!

[Lt Kije]

It's a club, it's free when your in Obs, now come on give us some British company's that are going to keep Britain afloat with their exports, and I mean British

 

You should be able to do it as your whole premise is based on it,

[observer]

Think your missing the point;  in a global capitalist market place, the national brand of a company is hardly relevant; they're all multi-nationals. The point is, if in the UK, they employ "British" workers, or did do until your EU loaded us with foreign workers. The also pay taxes in the UK, or should do. The growing demand for goods, is in China, India and Brazil. not Europe.

[Antisthenes]

Considering the entire programme was set up to slaughter Mr Farage, I thought he did quite well. He joined in and did his best to play along. The programme is there to mock, not to engage in debate. It had its funny moments too. Paul Nuttall is UKIP's Deputy Leader and has had a bit of air time in the past few weeks in the North West.

Ref my comment at *60 - the party is developing and removing unsuitable people. The three main parties are heavily funded, well-oiled machines, so UKIP has some catching up to do. Their attraction at the moment is that they are not a heavily funded, well-oiled machine, so their members are actually allowed opinions. That will change gradually.

As far as business is concerned: Capitalism desires simply lower costs and higher profits. Avon moved its production from Northampton to Poland a few years ago despite year-on-year efficiency improvements to achieve 1/3 of labour costs. The efficiency dropped but the costs were lower. That's how it works. In order to maintain our standard of living we need to earn gradually more each year to keep pace with inflation. Now we have completely free movement within the EU our labour costs get reduced because well-qualified people from across central and eastern Europe will happily do 'dirty' jobs below their pay grade for 3,4,5,6 times their earnings at home. Therefore, the average standard of living in the UK will drop because workers will see their earnings fall or increase more slowly. The minimum wage only works if it is enforced but there are many areas of employment where this is skirted round, including being contracted from abroad. If the issue of free movement and employment is not addressed our young people will find it increasingly more difficult to find decent, regular, if any, work and that leads to other social issues. Moving people from welfare to work is hugely important but cheap labour prevents that ever happening. And...the UK will continue to trade with the world - products and skills - whether we are in the EU or well out of it.

[Lt Kije]

Not missing the point at all Obs I think you are,

 

Many of the multi nationals came here to gain access to the single market as you well know, why would they stay if we leave as their products would cost more, selling a product into the EU from the outside costs more than it does from the inside.

[observer]

Your talking imports by proxy, we need exports, and a trade surplus with the big wide world, beyond the EU.

[Lt Kije]

The car industry is one if our biggest exporters, most are here to gain access to the single market, if the UK was outside the EU the price of the cars they sell would go up and they would be less competitive, there are sound economic reasons why business wants to stay in, you might not agree with their reasons but than does not lessen them, also the UK attracts businesses because we are in the EU, we would find it harder to attract companies to come to the UK if we are not in the EU.

[observer]

Thought you were a "free trade" advocate?  The EU is a protectionist club.

[Lt Kije]

Don't change the subject, you want the UK to trade in its own tell us how and with what British industries are going to do it?

[Bazj]

Kije, you have just jeopardised your own argument.... if you take the car manufacturers; you have said time and again that you think they would quite willingly shut up shop and move out of the UK if we left the EU have you not?

 

If that is true, surely there is also a threat to the car manufacturers staying in the UK with having cheap labour countries like Latvia, Bulgaria and Romania coming on board? It would surely be more cost effective for Nissan to up sticks and move to Bulgaria where they can still access the "free markets" and have cheap labour to boot. Training someone to build a car on a production line is hardly rocket science (for the majority of the works)

 

So by its very design, the EU can be a threat to itself unless it puts measures in place to stop companies moving between member countries to take advantage of cheaper labour.....

[Antisthenes]

And apart from adding new countries to undercut one's own workforce - how could the 'Labour' party ever justify that? - the Euro has been adopted by several countries who failed to meet the criteria for joining the single currency. Again, ridiculous. Why have criteria? Furthermore, their economies have collapsed or are unmanageable - Italy, Greece, Spain, Portugal and Ireland. Not saying ours is much better, as we are propped up by credit that can never be repaid - the government and many individuals. As Churchill might say nowadays...Never has so little been done for so long by so many for so much...

A slight change in tack in how we govern ourselves is due. Britons won't entertain an Arab Spring or an Orange Revolution like those we get to ogle at on our 'news' programmes but we can take up our ballot papers and walk...

[P J]

and do you really see that clown Farage as the answer to our woes?  You are no Socrates

[Bazj]

Farage may well not be the answer per say; but if he is the catalyst which sparks change; then all the better

[Antisthenes]

Not a bad footballer in my time, PJ   . Not saying he is the answer, but you have to agree with Bazj - he has got people talking about doing things differently. We can't continue choosing between career politicians - they are facsimiles of one another - they live insulated lives. Nor should we shoot down anyone who speaks out or has a different view, if they can support it. Encourage people to vote and let's take responsibility for ourselves.

[P J]

Ah you must be on about a different Farage than I am. The one I am on about claims millions of our money in exes, has all the ethics of a gutter rat, leaps on anything he thinks will get him a vote and offers only sound bites with no evidence or facts to back up his fantastical claims. He is also a bumbling fool in charge of a rag tag bunch of loonies, nutters and closet racists. Sounds like he has a lot in common with the rest of them to me. Not so much a breath of fresh air as a stench from the sewers

 

[Lt Kije]

Now your missing the point Baz, one of the main points of the EU is to level the playing field, Now will one of you anti EU people please tell me what British industries you are expecting to take up the export slack if we leave the EU, and perhaps we could also discuss the job in pact if plants like Nissan were to close, and how you would address that also, as most if the inward investment into the UK from foreign companies is to gain access to the single market.

[Bazj]

So the main point of the EU is to level the playing field????? What kind of half hearted answer is that???? So it's OK to level the playing field by lowering wages here to the level in Romania or to allow companies to swap between members to find the cheapest labour????
My god, you really do not like this country do you kije???

 

British manufacturing....

 

Motorbikes, cars and motorsport, satellites, yachts, trains, planes (and even automobiles....) and televisions too... not everything is dependant on the EU

 

The chances of the likes of Nissan closing is about as high as it would be if they decided to move to Romania for the cheap labour; it would be of no benefit to the company to waste all of the investment; especially if the UK opens up new markets via the commonwealth as well as a new trade agreement with the EU (Or what would be left of it)

 

The scaremongering stories are only out there to protect the massive wealth of the fat cats who depend on the cheap labour to make their massive profits at the expense of British jobs..... but of course that is OK in your eyes
 

[Antisthenes]

Stones being thrown but solutions none. Perhaps PJ could step forth...

[P J]

Sadly, I have no solutions for the countries problems, the difference between me and some others on here is that I understand this. If immigration is a huge financial problem and the solution is to get rid of all the immigrants and stop new ones, what then is your solution for the far more desperate and draining issue of care for the elderly and pension payments? Should we get rid of them too? Or is this solution too final for you?

[observer]

You have no solutions, and neither do the three main parties - hence the disaffection with them. Whoever wins the 2015 election will have a plateful to sort out, as the NHS is going bankrupt, we're short of 10,000 GPs and of course, an elderly care financial time bomb is looming.