Still coming -

[observer]

Net immigration has increased to over 200,000pa (double the Gov target), and the influx is mainly from the EU, with 24,000 from Rumania and Bulgaria (now the Xmas hols are over!). An increase pa equal to the population of Warrington, and they just keep coming.  Meanwhile, no words of comfort for Dave's renegotiations on the EU from Angela Merkel; it's up to the 27 EU members to decide on any changes. Well, given most of those 27 represent net spongers, who are sending their populations here for "a better life"; it will be no surprise to believe that Dave's flogging a dead horse. Only solution, exit the EU ASAP.

[inky pete]

Since the EU have already said that as a "new country" an independent Scotland would have to apply for EU membership from outside the EU, why wouldn't that apply to a newly independent England and Wales?

 

Sounds like an exit strategy to me!

[observer]

  or we could all move to Scotland, pity about their weather !  Spain will veto any chance of an Independent Scotland joining the EU and Alex is gagging for more immigrants !

[Lt Kije]

I wonder why you did not comment on the channel 5 debate the other week Obs, Oh yes I know its because the economic argument of immigration won out, and you did not want to draw attention to it 

[observer]

  Debate?  Invite a load of lefty luvvies into a studio, and allow a series of sound bites to constitute a rational argument - afraid, not representative of wider public opinion - as we'll hopefully discover in May.  The myth of net contributing immigrants applies only to those in higher income brackets and those without dependents;  those in lower demeaning jobs, won't be paying tax; but may be claiming family credits, using the NHS, our schools, and other public services - thus will be net consumers of taxes. The equation is simple; we're the most densely populated country in Europe and the third most densely populated country in the world - the life boat is now over-loaded.

[Lt Kije]

Didn't think so Obs, you right it of, because it did not say what you wanted it too, if it had you wold have posted it all over here, mind you having Katie Hopkins just made your side of the argument look stupid, she did you no favours. Can't believe your trying to write it off as leftie rubbish as you got stuffed

[Evil Sid]

And judging by the amount of water we have down south it's sinking as well

[observer]

Why do you think they put that hate figure Hopkins on, in the first place?  Just an opportunity by the TV luvvies, to engage in subtle propaganda.

[Lt Kije]

So UKIP did not take part then, or is that what you mean by the figure of hate

[observer]

Nope, you know quite well that I'm referring to Hopkins - it was Jeremy Kyle style TV, at it's best; designed to excite rather than inform.

[Lt Kije]

if your side had won Obs you would have been trumpeting it on here, what a great program you should have watched it ect,  UKIP were involved were they not ?

[Lt Kije]

You might find this interesting Obs, no doubt you will rubbish it

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-26435000

[observer]

Won?  Matter of opinion at the end of the day, and hopefully opinion will translate into votes in May !

[P J]

So how many Romanians and Bulgarians, in millions to make it easier, flooded into the country fron January the 1st.  Mr. Farage claimed more than their entire combined populations would be here by now. 

[Lt Kije]

Well Mr Farage die have a knack for attracking the gullible to support his party, if 99% of immigrants are legal and paying taxes! perhaps Obs would like to tell us how he would make up the tax short fall, is he willing to take a cut in his pension? Or would he stuck the burden on the working!?,

[observer]

First: Romanians & Bulgarians were arriving in the UK (illegally), well BEFORE the deadline, and after the N/Year hols (deadline), will no doubt continue to arrive (legally).  Hence the prevalence in London of street crime by Roma Gypsies. But don't let that disturb your complacency. Just to get it right, Farage refered to "entitlement" to enter the UK, and the free movement of labour policy of the EU "entitles" any or all of the populations of the 27 members to go wherever they want, so there is no limit to movement at all.   Second: As I've already stated; the luvvie myth of a migrant population all paying a net contribution in tax, can only apply to those earning more than the tax threshold and without dependents requiring public services. Those in low paid, menial work; won't be paying any tax, but with dependents, will be claiming some benefits, using the NHS, and now  getting Council housing (more inside info!), and of course using our schools etc etc. Net migration has increased to double the Tory target of 100,000pa; but this can't account for illegal entrants who they simply don't know about or trace. As for those illegals who are on the radar, claiming asylum; they are not allowed to work, so won't be contributing anything in tax, and receive food vouchers; if they reproduce, their offspring will be entitled to all the benefits of being British; and they'll secure under ECHR legislation "the right to a family life" - in the UK. And just a quick look at the other end of the food chain, the Gov are encouraging rich immigrants into the UK, with their money; and on the face of it a fine idea; BUT many foreign £billionaires are investing in property, thus leaving many properties in London empty and inflating house prices generally. That's the reality.

[Lt Kije]

Would you be willing to take a cut in your pension, get get what you want an end to immigration, or would you put all the burden on the working

Yes/no

 

It is not a myth, immigrants pay more into the system than they take out, you know this but you don't want people to know!

[observer]

Your living in airy fairy land Kije:  what have "pensions" got to do with immigrants; unless your accepting that there are so many of them, all paying tax (which I dispute), that we're basically reliant on them.  Meanwhile, there are a million British youngsters unemployed, under-educated/skilled for our future economic needs (according to the CBI), who we should be depending on to increase our exports and secure growth, and contribute to future social needs. Notice you've ignored my references to "illegals" who they can't even trace, never mind tax, to asylum seekers costing us £millions in legal aid; to the Roma and organised traffickers currently infesting the UK; or even to the £billionaires buying up London. Talk about denial - well you've got friends of course in the Liberal and Labour Parties, cos it's clear they are wedded to the EU and have no intention of sorting out this shambles; and the Tory Party, labouring under the illusion that the majority of the 27 states of the EU, will ever allow a renegotiation of a status quo, that keeps their begging bowls full.

[Lt Kije]

Aging population Obs, not enough tax payers to pay for the retired, so would you take a cut in your pension to achieve what you want?

 

I am in favour of reform of the EU, but you cannot do from outside Obs, has to be done from inside, farming is top of my list , We both know immigration is needed.

[P J]

so no millions then?  thought not.

 

As for illegal immigration, they should make that against the law

[observer]

Mr Farage didn't claim the entire populations of Rumania or Bulgaria would march into the UK on the 1st Jan; but that they would be "entitled" to, merely a fact of the EU policy on the free movement of labour.  With average net immigration of 200,000pa for at the last two decades, I'll let you work out the "millions" PJ.     Kije: if you can shed your natural aversion to my arguments, by actually reading them from time to time; you'll notice that I have no problem with inviting specific groups of migrants with the specific skills we need into the UK; ON TIME LIMITED VISAS. BUT, it would greatly diminish such need if our Gov got a grip of our education and training system in order to produce our own engineers, doctors, scientists etc; and provide jobs for a million British youngsters. It's no surprise that our ruling elite take a rather liberal attitude on the issue; as the closest they come to the issue will be to meet professional immigrants or employ a cheap nanny.  If you want to meet some, just take your car for a hand wash, and you can ask them how much tax they pay ! As for "paying pensions";  the Gov has to increase revenues in two ways - 1) becoming a net exporting nation at the top end of technological innovation (NB, Germany spends twice as much as we do on Research  & Development; China 5 times and the US 10 times). 2) By pursuing a progressive tax policy that eliminates evasion and avoidance. Perhaps we could add, by cutting overseas aid, eliminating legal aid for non Brits and of course, getting out of the ECHR which protects current abuse and the EU which compounds it and drains our taxes to support backward members.

[P J]

there you go, no millions of Romanians, no millions of Bulgarians and the first cuckoo of spring :)

[observer]

Obviously your not interested in factual comment, merely skewing a misquote to support your point - Farage didn't say there WOULD be millions from Rumania or Bulgaria, just that millions would be entitled to come, which is a statement of fact, and the curtain hasn't closed on that option. And as I said many had already arrived BEFORE the accession deadline, including an estimated 200,000 Roma Gypsies, allegedly responsible for 20% of street crime in London.

[Lt Kije]

Where did you get that they are allegedly responsible for 20% of the crime in London from Obs, ?? And did they say any else about any other minority such as the Jews?

 

Are you going to answer my question about your pension?

[observer]

Your like a dog with a bone Kije, problem is, it's always the wrong bone.!  IF, you're saying that pensions will rely on taxpaying immigrants; your openly admitting that we already have too many here ! However, far from being tax-payers, those with families and in menial work, will be tax consumers; and I'm currently paying for their kids to be taught English and receive an education.  As for the Roma street crims; this was produced in Police stats some time ago, way before they were legally eligible to enter the UK; their contingent now amounts to 200,000 in the UK; similar to the Sri Lanka community; and god knows how many other "communities"; all fleeing poverty and war and looking for "a better life", and with soft touches like you, they're getting it..