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Davy51

Something good from the EU......?

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As you all may know i am not the greatest fan of the EU & all its illusions of its own greatness , however, i was reading a news article just the other day where Chris Grayling MP was stating the governments position with regard to rebutting the latest dictat that the EU wants to impose on its member states, namely the Charter for Fundamental Rights. Apparently this first reared its head in 1998 when Labour were in power & was never brought into UK law which is surprising considering that within its 54 articles are some which could benefit the country in its present state .

  The Charter contains, among others, the right to collective bargaining in the workplace , better employment protection  & other employment goodies that could possibly ,if implemented, prevent the problems we have now with regard to zero hours contracts ,agency implementation within companies ,companies advertising abroad for labour via recruitment agencies ....all of which are obstacles to many people coming off benefits & entering the labour markets to earn meaningful wages that are not available at present & are harming the UK economy because of the high welfare payments.

 Yes , i too am shocked that i have seen something good in the EU !

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Very interesting Asp. It is no wonder that wholesale redundancies have taken place over the last 15 years in the British workplace for the work to then be undertaken by imported labour. This has resulted in a 15 year programme of creating a benefit dependant culture , with only the offer of fragmented work opportunity.

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We already have the right to collective bargaining and some of the strongest employment protections in Europe. There's no point bringing in new rights when most people are too apathetic to exercise the rights they already have.

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Inky I have no idea where you get your information from, workers rights are weak, British employees are cheap to employ and even cheaper to make redundant, hence UK workers are laid off and French and German workers are not, workers rights have beeneroding in the UK for a number of years.

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Inky I have no idea where you get your information from, workers rights are weak, British employees are cheap to employ and even cheaper to make redundant, hence UK workers are laid off and French and German workers are not, workers rights have beeneroding in the UK for a number of years.

 

Once again Kije you assume that the EU is all about France and Germany.... workers rights in Britain are a lot stronger than in some of the other 20 odd countries of Europe. In Belgium for example, an employer can terminate a workers contract with only 28 days notice and they have to work a certain number of days within a given period to be entitled to any unemployment benefits. The self employed in Belgium do not qualify for any unemployment benefits at all. Employers in Denmark can decide what rules apply on their premises and can even dismiss on the spot anyone who does not comply...

 

Spain appears to have pretty good working laws... http://www.expatica.com/es/employment/employment_information/Spanish--labour-laws-Working-time-and-leave_16110.html

 

but of course; while we continue to have a national minimum wage that is higher than many people can earn for skilled jobs in the eastern European countries, our country will always be a magnet to them. Ideally, a Europe wide minimum wage should be introduced to deter the brain drain from the poorer countries... but of course the poorer countries couldn't afford to pay 7 pound odd an hour so there is no practical solution

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Try France and Germany Baz I was comparing us against our peers, I am sure if you compare us against Poland we would look quite good also, successive governments have weakened workers rights in attempt to bring in foreign investment, easy to hire, easy to sack.

 

Might be wrong do you not have to be employed 2 years before you get full employee rights?

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Considering we have a minimum wage that is so called set in stone ,it surprises me that anyone coming from another country to work here is not given the same minimum wage.& can therefore be at an advantage in the jobs market.

One of the terms i have had problems with in recent years is  "redundancy"......i always understood you were redundant if your job no longer existed so how can a company make wholesale redundancies  & fill those non existent jobs with imported labour ? What needs to happen though is for greater protection to be given in the workplace in terms of preventing jobs been taken away just for the sake of installing cheaper foreign workers & to get people back onto the work & property buying ladder & off benefits & that is where the zero hours contract needs to be outlawed. We don't have the protection of trade unions for these matters like we used to & if the EU directives can help in any way they should be implemented.

 

Praising the EU for something really does stick in my throat though !

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Try France and Germany Baz I was comparing us against our peers, I am sure if you compare us against Poland we would look quite good also, successive governments have weakened workers rights in attempt to bring in foreign investment, easy to hire, easy to sack. Might be wrong do you not have to be employed 2 years before you get full employee rights?

 

But I thought the EU was supposed to be good for all of its members Kije??? If we have good worker rights in comparison to Poland, Bulgaria, Romania, Estonia etc plus we have the minimum wage which is better than a lot of skilled workers pay in the former Eastern block countries; surely it is no surprise that their workers want to come over here.

 

Talking about this in work today and the general consensus was that our unemployed get too many benefits which discourage them from working and even more so if they have a few sprogs to benefit from too... plus if you throw in the rent help, free this, free that, it is no wonder that they don't want to stack shelves for minimum wage. But as was said (and I know from comments from members of my own extended family) the ones on benefits are usually the most vocal against foreign workers "coming over here and taking all the jobs"

 

The trouble is; there isn't a level playing field in the EU as a whole and although I may not agree with it; you can't blame someone coming over here looking for work when the pay is so much better than it is at home... it doesn't solve our issues here though as it allows the persistent workshy to get away with it.

 

A wholesale clean up of the unemployment benefits and entitlements is needed to get the workshy to accept the lower paid work; otherwise we will never solve the problem, only paper over the cracks!

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The UK opted out of many of employees rights Baz, you have Maggie to thank for making it easier to lay UK workers off compared to most of mainland Europe, multi nationals will lay off British workers before French workers as it costs a lot more to lay them off and they have more rights.

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The Social Chapter, which the UK opted out from, was part of the Maastricht treaty which was signed by John Major. But don't let that fact deter you from blaming Maggie for everything. The Blair government eventually signed up to it so that means that if the French workers have more rights then the French government must have given them over and above those rights required under the Social Chapter.

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