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P J

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P J    159

It would appear that one of the main arguments against immigration into the UK, that immigrants cost the country in services and benefits, is just a bit of a red herring.  Scare mongers like Farage can see that feeding peoples fears will bring them more votes, after all the tactic worked wonderfully well for Herr Hitler so why not him. It's a long piece but give it a read.

 

Immigration brings economic and fiscal gains to UK, reports show

Immigration over recent years has brought tangible economic and fiscal benefits to Britain, according to two independent research reports that together debunk much of the thinking behind calls to  crack down on migrants.

The reports come on the heels of similar conclusions from bodies such as the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development – conclusions that have done little to blunt rising calls for the UK to limit migrants entering the country.

The rising popularity of the anti-immigration UK Independence Party has forced both main political parties to propose measures to limit the number of newcomers.

The latest reports – one from the Centre for Research and Analysis of Migration at University College London, the other from the National Institute for Economic and Social Research – looked at two aspects of migration.

The first considered the net fiscal cost or benefit of relatively recent arrivals, in particular from European countries. The second examined the impact on worker productivity and the attitudes of employers and workers.

The UCL study concluded that between 1995 and 2011, immigrants from the European Economic Area contributed £8.8bn more than they received in benefits. That compared with a drain on the nation’s finances of £604.5bn by native Britons. More recent migrants contributed even more, the study found.

“Our analysis suggests that rather than being a drain on the UK’s fiscal system, immigrants arriving since the early 2000s have made substantial net contributions to [the UK’s] public finances, a reality that contrasts starkly with the view often maintained in public debate,” the report concludes.

“Between 2001 and 2011, recent EEA immigrants contributed to the fiscal system 34 per cent more than they took out, with a net fiscal contribution of about £22.1bn,” the study said. Migrants from non-EEA countries made a more modest but still positive contribution, putting in roughly 2 per cent more than they took out.

But over the same period, native Britons paid much less into the system than they took out in benefits, contributing only 89 per cent of what they cost. Even when the data are adjusted to take account of differences with the native population in gender mix, age and educational attainment, recent immigrants are still 21 per cent less likely than natives to be receiving benefits.

Separately, the NIESR study looked at the effects of immigration on worker productivity – the value of the output produced by each worker – and concluded that those industries with higher shares of migrant workers had higher labour productivity. The correlation was particularly noticeable in the manufacturing and real estate sectors.

“Our analyses show a positive and significant association between immigration and labour productivity growth in the time period analysed,” NIESR found, noting that each 1.0 per cent rise in the immigrant share of employment is associated with an increase in labour productivity of 0.06 to 0.07 per cent.

 

 

 

 

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asperity    271

Of course immigrants taking jobs thatcould have been done by native Britons wouldn't have caused any  of that "drain" on the nation's finances. Just saying.

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Dizzy    300

AARGH !!!  Not another bloody topic about immigration :shock:  :?   PJ what have you done !!!

 

I'm going out for a walk as I can't stand it any more....... .

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observer    552

Thought he didn't believe in "bickering" on about immigration?!   Kije found this straw to grasp earlier and is quite easily dismissed as luvvie propaganda. It refers to the top of the iceberg, where professionals will be earning sufficient to pay tax. It doesn't cover those in low paid menial work, doesn't account for large dependent families - all of whom will be consuming more in services than they pay in tax. At the bottom of this food chain, there will be illegals, who aren't allowed to work, and are provided with food vouchers to live on; whilst pursuing their asylum claims at our expense in legal aid.

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Lt Kije    101

lovvie propaganda Obs The Bull*?* you come out with day after day on here is just your toned down version of the third riech, And the only reason why you insist on posting every day on on here when everyone is pig sick of it is because you believe you are keeping it in the forefront of people's minds and you hope by doing it they will vote your way. PATHETIC. People no your view give it a rest!!!

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Bazj    498
lovvie propaganda Obs The Bull*?* you come out with day after day on here is just your toned down version of the third riech, And the only reason why you insist on posting every day on on here when everyone is pig sick of it is because you believe you are keeping it in the forefront of people's minds and you hope by doing it they will vote your way. PATHETIC. People no your view give it a rest!!!
 

and so you reply..... if you are so fed up with Obs posting about immigration, why do you ALWAYS have to reply?

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observer    552

Cos he knows we're right, but just can't face admitting it - those that got us into this mess, like Blunket and Straw are now "coming out", and admitting they got it wrong - hindsight of course.

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P J    159

So all these studies by three different independent institutes which I found in a widely respected publication are all lying despite providing evidence?  Why?  It is only easily dismissed in your rapidly narrowing mind Observer.

 

Who to believe:

 

Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development

Centre for Research and Analysis of Migration at University College London

National Institute for Economic and Social Research

and the Financial Times

 

or

 

Some blinkered failed ex local politico

 

mmmm this could take some time.......

  • Upvote 1

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Lt Kije    101

Because their is no way I am going to let his sick propaganda go unchallenged.

 

I can't understand why he won't let it rest he not changing any minds, it has been discussed to death

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Bazj    498
Because their is no way I am going to let his sick propaganda go unchallenged. I can't understand why he won't let it rest he not changing any minds, it has been discussed to death

 

But if someone posts a news story and it happens to be about anything negative to do with immigration or Europe, you jump on them like a Rottweiler.... a news story is a news story.... they can't all be about fluffy kittens and rainbows

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Lt Kije    101

New story on immigration,  :shock:

 

Within 2 posts it degenerates down into anyone not agreeing with Obs is a Liberal lovvie, and anyone not agreeing with you is a toga wearer, and then become trench warfare, no one is going to change there mind so their is not much point continuing, I am not going to change my mind and Obs is not going to change his, so you have got to ask why he carries on

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P J    159
Think the answers in the titles of those organisations PJ. You believe them if you wish, I'll stick with the BBC news.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24813467

 

here you go then Observer, from your preferred source, oh look it says the same as the FT report .  So now I must decide who to believe, the BBC,

the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development, the Centre for Research and Analysis of Migration at University College London, the National Institute for Economic and Social Research and the Financial Times,

 

or some blinkered failed ex local politico.

 

it's a tough one

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Bazj    498
 so you have got to ask why he carries on

 

why do you?...... are you secretly in some kind of stalking relationship with him where you have to respnd to every post he makes so he always knows you are there with him?? :)

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observer    552

Certainly don't believe some no mark called PJ ! Seems even the arch - liberal luvvie Clegg, has come out in support of his co-Sheffield MP, Blunkett - by saying "the Roma need to adapt to our way of life". Perhaps they'll appear on the Jeremy Kyle show next?!

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Peter T    59

Sad sad people.

Do you really believe that a study about the financial implications of those who work and benefit the country, also covers the whole spectrum of the immigration situation? Cobblers. Do they measure the load put on the police, hospitals, Social Services etc etc? and put that into their figures?

 

PJ, Go do some work and bolster my pension. :P :wink:

  • Upvote 1

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Lt Kije    101

Sad sad Peter.

 

As it says they are a net benefit, the taxes they pay go toward the NHS, Police ect, is their money not as good as yours, How narrow your mind has become, you only see what is in your tunnel vision. Their taxes help bolster our services and help pay your pension.

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P J    159
Certainly don't believe some no mark called PJ ! Seems even the arch - liberal luvvie Clegg, has come out in support of his co-Sheffield MP, Blunkett - by saying "the Roma need to adapt to our way of life". Perhaps they'll appear on the Jeremy Kyle show next?!

 

I never asked you to believe me Observer I merely posted the findings of some very respected bodies who had made thorough studies into a subject which seemed to be rather important ( some would say an obsession) to some on here.  These findings were no doubt scrutinised and then published in such media outlets as the Financial Times and (as requested by yourself) the BBC.  Your refusal to accept them speaks volumes about you and is typical of the way you operate and was probably the main reason you became such a laughing stock ten years ago.

 

 I posted them for two reasons, one, to show you that all the rhetoric and hot air you spout about immigrants being to blame for all the bad befalling the country is in fact a huge myth propagated and given life by extreme, one policy, wannabe, political parties, and reason two, to entice my good pal Baz into posting in the political section(s) of this forum despite his avowal not to do so for a month  :D . I reckon I succeeded on both counts lol.

 

 I don't really have much of an axe to grind either way regarding immigration or the EU.  I just feel it is nowhere near as bad as you claim nor as marvellous as Lt. Kije seems to think.  What is obvious is that you take yourselves and your opinions far to seriously..

 

 

and breathe........................ :)

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Bazj    498
 to entice my good pal Baz into posting in the political section(s) of this forum despite his avowal not to do so for a month 

 

Blimey.... are you THAT PJ???? I never realised! :)

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observer    552

So to listen to your argument, the Slovak Roma in Sheffield (just s one example), will all be gainfully employed in well paid professional jobs, paying large amounts in tax and with no family requirements for health, education and other services?  Get real.

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P J    159
So to listen to your argument, the Slovak Roma in Sheffield (just s one example), will all be gainfully employed in well paid professional jobs, paying large amounts in tax and with no family requirements for health, education and other services?  Get real.

well if that is what you think the studies findings say then I suppose you would have a point but as it  isn't I see no point trying to argue, no wonder you have had to make almost 35000 posts if you struggle so much with basic comprehension. 

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Lt Kije    101

The Slovak Roma in Sheffield would you say they are more than 0.001% of the immigrant population of the UK, and if so does it not smack of desperation that have to use such a small % to make your point..

Get real :wink:

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