Price caps or more tax?

[observer]

Interesting to see that the looming election battle appears to centre on who can freeze the most price rises; Labour kicked off with a proposed energy price freeze, now the Tories are offering a rail fare cap.  But surely, at the end of the day, the money comes either out of customers or taxpayers pockets = the general public?

[asperity]

You have to admire the sheer bare faced effrontery of Miliband and his energy price freeze plan, given that he was the minister resposible for loading our fuel bills with green taxes. And he did that with the express purpose of making our energy more expensive to encourage us to use less and reduce our, so called, carbon footprints.

 

I notice that he was given a free Party Political Broadcast on the BBC's Watchdog programme last night.

[observer]

Noticed that one Asp; but they did say that they would have the Minister on later in the series. Bit dubious about this "price freeze", the energy companies now have 20months to artificially up their prices before an election, in order to get them over Milliband's two year price freeze. He's also going to separate delivery and supply within the industry; but that just adds to the current smoke and mirrors cartel. Much better, and more honest, to re-nationalise the lot imo. It's then a question of who pays the taxes. btw agree with you about Milliband's "green energy tax"; yet another Labour initiative, without thinking through to the consequences.

[asperity]

Ed Davey, the Minister, is even more committed to green taxes and renewables than Miliband unfortunately.

[Lt Kije]

Some of the money raised by the levy goes to insulate old peoples homes, and help the poorest pay, it's not all green levy. And SSE are saying the cost do delivering the fuel has also gone up, and the cost of whole sale gas, not saying I believe them but that's their statement.

[observer]

Think it all comes down to what we consider "essential" to the well being of the population, and I would imagine heating & lighting, are amongst other things like food, "essential". Which then begs the question, how to deliver "essential" services to the population, the market certainly can't, as it merely operates on the basis of supply and demand, and profit; and can't be expected to have the moral compass to worry about fuel poverty.

[asperity]

So we should expect that our government will have the moral compass to remove all green taxes and VAT from fuel supplies. Hurrah for common sense. After all the government can always appoint a watchdog to ensure that the fuel companies don't earn excess profits can't we? Well Miliband junior reckons he can

[Davy51]

It never ceases to amaze me how energy policies always manage to inflict massive  ,inflation busting price rises on the population,along with ,for a great many people,train fares as in travel to work costs.It is  inconceivable  that political parties cannot see that energy prices are probably a major contributor  to our stifled economy ,in that it is eating up any spare funds that consumers may have to spend in the wider economy.

No doubt any frozen price rises will be zealously passed on to customers as soon as the 2 years are up ,& probably with a vengeance for interrupting the companies ' profits.

[observer]

Think the plan by the E-Companies, is to hike charges before and after Milliband's freeze. "The market" can only recognise demand, supply and profit; which is fine if we're talking about general consumer items, which we may want, but aren't essential. Those areas "essential" to individuals and the economy generally, need to be affordable to all, and thus controlled by the State, IE Nationalised.

[Davy51]

Exactly Obs ,all utilities should be under government control  so as to ensure that an affordable service is provided as cheaply as possible. Governments get their profits from taxation with which to run other services such as welfare.

[Lt Kije]

I agree Obs, State control!!!

[observer]

..... and hope "the State" can control it better than they're "controlling" immigration !!!!

[Lt Kije]

You couldn't resist

 

Yawnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

[observer]

your just toooo easy !

[observer]

True to form, the energy companies are hiking their charges - taking the p**s or what?

[Davy51]

I'd love to know how such price hikes can be condoned when we are told how low inflation is supposed to be .

[Lt Kije]

10% price hikes in energy by British Gas, A desperate government now letting the Chinese own are Nuclear power stations, time to nationalise!!!!!

[wahl]

Wait till the nuclear stations are working, then nationalise

[asperity]

Just in case.............

 

[observer]

Listening to all the excuses flying around, it would seem we a due for blackouts because, we're shutting down coal fired power stations on schedule, but their green alternatives are behind schedule - answer: keep the coal fired one's open longer. We're now asking the Chinese to invest in nuclear stations, but they will want a good return on their investment, thus we'll be open to price hikes from the Chinese. The Gov keep telling us to "switch", to what? The big six are clearly operating as a cartel and the economics of supply are based on smoke and mirrors, not on genuine competition or any attempt at energy self sufficiency and security. Finally, the Gov saddled the energy companies with the job of insulating homes, which would ultimately reduce energy demand and consequently, their profits - so isn't there a conflict of interest in there somewhere? Only one answer to all this - re-nationalise energy; and while they're at it, rail, water, and any other essential services we can think of. Clearly, Parliament and the Political Class are not fit for purpose.

[asperity]

Of course the politicians are loving all the hate being directed towards the energy companies because it allows them to hide in the shadows, to pretend that they aren't the cause of the problem rather than the solution. They're the ones who brought in all the lunatic legislation supposedly designed to "save the planet". They are the ones that fund, amongst others:

• The Wildlife Trusts
• The Woodland Trust
• Waste Watch
• Scottish Environment Link
• Friends of the Earth
• Environmental Protection UK
• Client Earth
• Compassion in World Farming
• Wildlife and Countryside Link
• Royal Society for the Protection of Birds
• Green Alliance
• FERN – EU Forest Programme
• Campaign to Protect Rural England 

So called "charities" who are mainly funded by government using OUR money to lobby the self same government to support the policies they (not us) want. Without this interference in the market perhaps we would be able to see the wood for the trees. But so long as the government is manipulating energy prices in this way to change public behaviour, any case for nationalisation is pure madness.

[asperity]

The Poles, Czech and Germans are going all out for coal powered generation and to hell with EU regulation, so what's wrong with us doing the same?

[observer]

We're walking on top of a thousand years supply of coal, we have hydro, tidal, bio-waste alternatives; but no one's getting a grip and building our generation capacity. Agree with the thrust of your anti-green argument, but not the conclusion. Market anarchy is part of the problem, not the solution.

[asperity]

If the government nationalised the energy companies they wouldn't lower the prices, they would continue with their "green" policy of forcing us to reduce our energy use in the interests of their idiotic "climate control" agenda. The time has come to abandon these pie in the sky ideas and start looking after our own interests. Step one is to tell the EU to shove their directives where the sun don't shine.

[observer]

If the Gov nationalised energy, they would be in a position to set the tariff; which (in order to keep it low), may require a tax subsidy; and as tax is progressive, it would be funded on the basis of affordability. But that's not the full story; part of the problem is dependency on a global energy market, where demand is remorselessly increasing; and the only way to shelter ourselves is to strive for energy self sufficiency; which means utilising all indigenous energy sources to cater for projected consumption, it also requires a demand reduction strategy through a Gov or Local Gov run, free housing insulation scheme.