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well having googled some of the things Mandela was supposedly guilty of, I would put him on a Par with Martin McGuinness.... terrorist

 

however some may think otherwise

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By the way, when were any of you experts ever in South Africa?

Never, but then I have never been invited for tea with Maggie either.

 

 

 

 

well having googled some of the things Mandela was supposedly guilty of, I would put him on a Par with Martin McGuinness.... terrorist

 

however some may think otherwise

Seems Maggie didn't.

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A terrorist is a person who uses violence for political ends. Nelson Mandela was co-founder of the MK, the armed wing of the ANC, which used a campaign of bomb attacks and land mines against various targets, government and civilian. Many people of all races were killed or injured during the campaign. Any right thinking person would describe this as terrorism, although wooly headed liberals would prefer the more cuddly term "freedom fighting". I know that many people think that the grey haired little old man is a saint, but the fact remains that he used violence (terror) against the population of his country as a means to an end during his younger years. Sanitise history all you like but facts are facts.

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He used violence, against a government that kept power AWAY from the vast majority of the population of the Country., he fought for a democracy for all of the people not a small minority Asp.

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Aren't all politicians hypocrites to some extent?

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He used violence, against a government that kept power AWAY from the vast majority of the population of the Country., he fought for a democracy for all of the people not a small minority Asp.

He used violence, not against some "thing" called government, but against human beings. You might as well say that we should do away with elections and have a civil war every 5 years, the winner getting to form the next government. Violence to get what you want is never right, however just you might think your cause to be.

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Yes they are but stick to the topic :wink:

The topic was about the middle east but got sidetracked to South Africa by someone bringing up apartheid. Wonder who that was?

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The majority of the population were not allowed to take part in elections Asp, how would you advocate they get power, when those in charge were not going to move on it, no doubt you would have been happy with apartheid

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So you think that murder is justified if you can't get your own way Lt Kije? You really do have a twisted world view.

 

No doubt you were in favour of the IRA bombings.

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I favour democracy for all Asp, you obviously do not, If you are trying to bring Ireland into the debate I think you will find that the Catholics in Northern Ireland will soon out number the Protestants after that it will be a foregone conclusion, I do not think the UK government will have a choice, especially as they try to uphold democracy around the World, if it is right or not is another matter, you would have to ask an Irish Protestant that :wink: Catholics tend to have larger families

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I wish we had democracy in this country.

 

Again you choose to side step the issue as usual by changing the subject. So let's try again. If you were in favour of the ANC using violence and murder to achieve their aims, it follows that you also must have been in favour of the IRA using the same tactics to achieve theirs. Incidentally using the Catholic birthrate in Northern Ireland as some sort of reason why Northern Ireland will become part of the Republic you are obviously forgetting that the black population of South Africa has always outnumbered the white. I personally don't believe that the British Government wants to keep NI as part of the Union any more than the Republic of Ireland wants to annex it.

 

So, would you like to tell us whether you think using violence and murder to achieve your objective is allowable - ever. Take your time.

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Are you are saying because I supported the ANC I therefore agree with the IRA ?, by the same logic you are using I could say you supported Adolf, crap logic, think before you post!!!!

 

On Ireland I think you might be right, neither government particularly wants Northern Ireland.

 

 Violence must only be used as a last resort.

 

 Are you saying violence of any kind is wrong and an act of Terrorism even if the system they are fighting is wrong?  Take your time, think very carefully ???

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How is it logical to say that I supported Adolf (given that he was long dead before I was even born, and I'm against Socialists in any case)? You say that violence and murder is acceptable in one country and not in another, why is that? Is it because South Africa is a long way away and NI is close? You say you supported the ANC and their violent and murderous campaign using the excuse that it was "a last resort". That is crap and you know it. Apartheid would have ended eventually without innocent people being murdered in an indiscriminate bombing campaign. Of course violence is wrong, and in other threads you have demonstrated that you are against it as well, so why do you condone it in this case? Because otherwise it puts your hero Mandela in a bad light isn't that the reason? Freedom fighter sounds a lot cuddlier than terrorist. Thats why apologists call the murderer Che Guevara a freedom fighter.

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Would apartheid have ended Asp, Using your insane logic again you could say the Germans would have stopped killing jews eventually, without WW2, They might have listened to the World view eventually or they might have run out of jews.So its your opinion about apartheid would have finished anyway, An opinion formed so suit your argument and what do you mean by eventually one year or a hundred years?, Violence did not stop apartheid but it helped, The violence brought in World media, and then people round the World started to learn what apartheid was, and in turn put pressure on their own governments to do something about it.

 

So you oppose all struggles for freedom that involve any violence ? A simple yes or no will do. I await your answer with baited breath :lol:

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I oppose the murder of innocent people for political ends whether it is by South Africans or by Irish. You, however, appear to have no qualms about it. So do you think the Warrington bombings were justified because the IRA felt oppressed by British rule?

 

What do you bait your breath with? Maggots?

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I have answered your question, no I don't think that murder is justified under any circumstance. You, however, equivocated rather than admit to being in favour of terrorist bombing.

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In the eyes of the occupying German forces they were. But instead of trying to divert attention by bringing up irrelevancies why don't you tell us why you think blowing up shoppers in South Africa is allowed but blowing up shoppers in Warrington isn't. Take your time.

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What about the eyes of the Norwegians and French people Asp,if my Country got invaded I would like to think I would have the guts to act, Atleast I would know that you could not be relied upon.  You would sit and as you said wait eventually for liberation or collaborate  :wink:

 

You really have not thought your point of view though have you?

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