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asperity

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The point I was trying to make Asp and you choose to ignore is America and Israel are very close, so close that Israel can rely onthe Americans for money, help with defence and the all important Veto in the UN,

Your point is that two independent, democratic nations have close relations. How earth shattering!!

 

Where did I say that they didn't have friendly relations?

 

I would be very interested in seeing any proof you might have that Maggie actively "supported" apartheid.

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Seeing that the source is the Margaret Thatcher Foundation, it's hardly independent is it?

 

 

 

In 1984, Thatcher became the first British prime minister in 23 years to host an apartheid head of state. Three years later, she declared: "The ANC is a typical terrorist organisation." Her stance fostered a toxic ethos within her party. Thatcher's most loyal Cabinet colleague, Norman Tebbit, called Mandela a "terrorist". South Africa hosted regular apartheid-sponsored visits from Tory MPs, and Young Conservative leaders wore "Hang Nelson Mandela" badges.

Eventually, in 2006, Conservative leader David Cameron admitted they had got it wrong and that Mandela was "one of the greatest men alive". As part of his effort to detoxify the "nasty party", he added: "The fact that there is so much to celebrate in the new South Africa is not in spite of Mandela and the ANC, it is because of them – and we Conservatives should say so clearly."

Thatcher allies were outraged. But, for once, Cameron was right: her approach to apartheid was one of the more shameful dimensions of her legacy. For Botha and his generals, friends like Maggie gave cover for their harshest policies. They felt that their determination to crush opposition was part of a wider struggle against communism and that the big players in the West had their backs.

On the other hand, we saw how quickly the National Party's resolve crumbled when faced with crippling financial sanctions. If Thatcher had helped that to happen a decade earlier, the country could have been spared a great deal of brutality, the effects of which linger today.

 

 

http://mg.co.za/article/2013-04-19-00-margaret-thatchers-shameful-support-for-apartheid

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Asp very hard but it is possible for an Arab to become a citizen of Israel, and they a very very careful on numbers as they wouldn't want to be out voted and they might get those pesky land claims if they let the wrong ones in, its a bit like apartheid really if your an Arab .

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And your evidence for this is something other than you own anti semitic prejudice?

 

Wolfie, are you saying all those quotes have been manufactured somehow?

 

As for Camoron's opinion - and it is only his opinion, he isn't some sort of political genius - I would take it with a very large sack of salt.

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Wolfie, are you saying all those quotes have been manufactured somehow?

 

.

Certainly not, but choosing certain quotes to prove a point doesn't necessarily mean that the point has been proven.

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Well unless you can come with any quotes where she says "I fully support apartheid in South Africa", I think the case has been made that Lt Kije's assertion that she was a supporter of apartheid is a load of bull.

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Well you know the old saying,

 

'actions speak louder than words' and it seems that what Thatcher said and how she acted were miles apart.

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As far as I'm concerned she only made one simple mistake that caused the word "Thatcher" to be hated by so many.

She should never have married Dennis. :wink:

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Cameron has said she got it wrong on apartheid Asp, is that still not enough for you, or are you just going to stick your head in the sand as normal when you are wrong!!!!!!! and you are wrong!!!!! 

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Did you actually read those articles you linked to Lt Kije? Or did you just pick the DM one (you don't like the DM, so why believe what it says now?) because the headline says what you want to believe. In the article it Cameron is quoted as saying that he believes that her policies on South Africa were wrong, which isn't the same thing as being wrong on apartheid.

 

And here is a snippet from the second article you linked to:

 

The former British ambassador to South Africa, appointed by Thatcher, writes in a new book that “there was never any doubt about her opposition to apartheid,” but the question was how best to achieve change.

 

Keep trying Lt Kije.

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The author of that piece, although he was an anti-apartheid activist in South Africa at one stage, isn't a South African. And nowhere in the article does he claim that Maggie supported apartheid. The closest he gets is "There is no record of the Thatchers expressing moral misgivings about the apartheid they witnessed". Well you could say that about millions of people, influential or otherwise.

 

Keep digging Lt Kije :lol:

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Not much point really as you have blinded yourself by stinking your head in the ground, and apart from Maggie coming back from the dead and saying she liked apartheid nothing is going to change your mind, and if she dd come back from the dead and say so you would claim it was a set up. I can't be held responsible for you being pig headed Asp, :wink:

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You are so blind that you don't even believe the evidence (or lack of) that you provided links to!! When it comes to pigheadedness you are king of the stye :lol: :lol: :lol:

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And yet again you link to an article which, apart from being the opinion of the writer, fails to give any evidence that Maggie was in favour of apartheid! I will agree that her policy of opposing sanctions was not that of the mainstream but, in the opinion of many (including South Africans), she was instrumental in bringing about change in South African policies that led to the end of apartheid by diplomatic rather than economic means. If that is your last, and best, shot Lt Kije then I suggest you stop letting your prejudices rule your typing finger.

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Really? You have evidence that it was sanctions alone that did it? Or a combination of circumstances? These things are rarely so black and white. I would suggest that apartheid was doomed in any case and that diplomacy was less damaging to South African population than economic sanctions.

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