observer Posted July 9, 2013 Report Share Posted July 9, 2013 - according to the ECHR. You can wipe out five members of your own family, and expect to be eventually released from prison. Crazy or what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davy51 Posted July 9, 2013 Report Share Posted July 9, 2013 May be we should bring back the rope post haste Obs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted July 9, 2013 Report Share Posted July 9, 2013 It does not mean they will be released, it means they can be considered for release, it up to the people on parole boards to say yes or no Obs, as you know, it just you trying to muddy the waters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted July 9, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2013 An elected Government decides on legislation, our own Judicery interpret it on a case by case basis, to allow for a full life tariff. Then along come the unelected ECHR Judges and override the whole process. Fairly clear water imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted July 9, 2013 Report Share Posted July 9, 2013 The ECHR ruling will not set them free, It says they have to be considered, The UK can consider and say no, So know real change, unless your going to have ago at our parole system cant be trusted to do what YOU consider to be the right thing. Which I suspect is the truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted July 9, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2013 Tariffs are set by elected Government guidance - not by unelected beaurocrats in Europe, even though you wish it were so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted July 9, 2013 Report Share Posted July 9, 2013 As I said Obs, It does not mean they will be released, the choice is with us though parole boards, all it means is they have to be considered, Trust the parole board who are put their by are elected government Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted July 9, 2013 Report Share Posted July 9, 2013 It does not mean they will be released, it means they can be considered for release, it up to the people on parole boards to say yes or no Obs, as you know, it just you trying to muddy the waters. Kije.... see my post in the thread about venebles...... the parole board and probation service etc. get conned by these kinds of people all the time. The ECHR have made a complete cock-up with this; especially describing their detention and sentences as "degrading and inhuman"... these are mass murderers they are talking about... time to get out and ditch the whole sorry mess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algy Posted July 10, 2013 Report Share Posted July 10, 2013 I try not to become involved on this section of the forum as I usually finish up in conflict with someone or other, however to me, a sentence passed as life should mean just that, imprisoned until the offenders life has terminated, if you introduce a legal loophole then eventually some legal 'wizzkid' will find a way to bypass the sentence of life, mark my words it will happen, its just another example of these highly paid interfering euorocract leeches diluting the laws of our country. The sooner we ditch these freeloading idiots the better!. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted July 10, 2013 Report Share Posted July 10, 2013 Algy I agree with you. If a judge gives a life sentence that is what should be served. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted July 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2013 Which will require our exit from the ECHR Treaty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted July 10, 2013 Report Share Posted July 10, 2013 Algy We have had the tariff system for many years, long before the ECHR, very rarely doe a life sentence actually mean life in prison, it's easy to blame Europe but you would be wrong to do so. Obs, again the ruling from the ECHR changes nothing, full control is still in UK hands through the parole boards, nice try at throwing mud, but mud is all it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algy Posted July 10, 2013 Report Share Posted July 10, 2013 El Tee, what I stated is the way I feel about the subject nothing will change my mind and I shall cerainly not become involved in a squabling or point scoring exercise, for me the subject is closed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted July 10, 2013 Report Share Posted July 10, 2013 Algy I life sentence in the UK, usually means a minimum of 25 years in prison before you can apply for parole, it has been that way for a great many years. The UK does have some prisoners where the judge when sentencing them has said they should never be entitled to parole, all this court case has done has made them eligerble for parole, the parole board is quite within its rights to turn down the request. The parole board in the main do a good job, yes they have made mistakes but to judge them on them would be a mistake, as they a very few and far between, they hear hundreds of parole hearings a week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted July 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2013 You can try to sanitise it all you like Kije, but at the end of the day, these ECHR decisions represent interference with our own decision making; and it's not the first time - remember the votes for prisoners nonsense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted July 10, 2013 Report Share Posted July 10, 2013 Algy I life sentence in the UK, usually means a minimum of 25 years in prison before you can apply for parole, it has been that way for a great many years. Kije... as usual I am struggling to get passed your dyslexia/phone postings... are you really saying that a life sentence in the UK means a minimum of 25 years inside before they can apply for parole? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted July 10, 2013 Report Share Posted July 10, 2013 You might find this interesting Baz, not sure how much of it is true as its wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_imprisonment_in_England_and_Wales Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted July 10, 2013 Report Share Posted July 10, 2013 Included in a list of 49 people who may be up for a review are the killers of 14 people who were murdered by vermin released part way through their sentences for murder. Two things are obvious, one is that the Parole Board members were equally guilty of these crimes (not an odd mistake Kije) and two that 14 innocent people would still be alive if the murderers were hanged for their original crimes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted July 10, 2013 Report Share Posted July 10, 2013 Included in a list of 49 people who may be up for a review are the killers of 14 people who were murdered by vermin released part way through their sentences for murder. How many cases to the parole board look at a year eagle, and were those 49 people all released in one year or over many years, if you want to play the numbers game lets follow it to its conclusion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted July 10, 2013 Report Share Posted July 10, 2013 I think you need to read with more care, it helps you see what is actually written. I will remind you, "49 people who may be up for review", not "49 people all released". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted July 10, 2013 Report Share Posted July 10, 2013 Alright eagle lets do the stats on the 14 Over how many years were the 14 originally released, and how many cases did the parole board do over the same number of years,? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted July 10, 2013 Report Share Posted July 10, 2013 You still aren't listening, I said 14 victims!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted July 10, 2013 Report Share Posted July 10, 2013 Eagle.... Kije thinks like the justice system; the victim is irrelevant.... they don't matter; only the rights of the perpetrator have any relevance in his little mixed up mind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted July 11, 2013 Report Share Posted July 11, 2013 How many killers then eagle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algy Posted July 11, 2013 Report Share Posted July 11, 2013 In my view there is often confusion regarding justice and the penalty or sentence given to a guilty party. Justice. justice is the fair procedure as laid down by the courts of the land for the trial of individuals accused of perpetrating a crime against society or a member of society, once the accused has been undeniably found guilty of the crime, justice has been seen to be carried out. Penalty At this point other than adhering to procedure, justice plays no part in the penalty given to the guilty individual, a penalty has to be paid as determined by the set laws of society, those laws should be totally inflexible and there should be no interference from any outside influences, European Court Of Human Rights or otherwise. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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