Bazj Posted June 18, 2013 Report Share Posted June 18, 2013 June 27th...... teachers are taking another days industrial action.... I think it's about time some were made an example of and replaced with people who actually want to work and do the jobs they are handsomely rewarded for Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inky pete Posted June 18, 2013 Report Share Posted June 18, 2013 I've never understood what they think they're achieving with one day strikes here and there - except causing massive disruption to their customers (the parents) and forcing many of them to use up precious annual leave time (which only further highlights how much more annual leave teachers get than almost anyone else in the workforce). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted June 18, 2013 Report Share Posted June 18, 2013 Who said Teacher knows best?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted June 18, 2013 Report Share Posted June 18, 2013 Is it about pension cuts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fugtifino Posted June 19, 2013 Report Share Posted June 19, 2013 Pay, pensions and conditions, it says here: http://www.nasuwt.org.uk/Whatsnew/NASUWTNews/PressReleases/June27StrikeActionGoingAhead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Sid Posted June 19, 2013 Report Share Posted June 19, 2013 Ah but what are your feelings about the ones who are not going on strike? Blacklegs or kind caring professionals who want to help their "customers"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted June 19, 2013 Report Share Posted June 19, 2013 Teachers pay seems pretty good. The pay scales are here on the NUT website http://www.teachers.org.uk/node/14433 I don't particularly agree with them going on strike. It's also unfair on working parents who then either have to have a day off or pay for a days child care which is expensive so many parents will probably not back it. I realise they are not happy but there are people in all sorts of jobs who aren't having pay increases (or who have even had to take reduced pay) and they might not like their conditions and probably even haven't got a 'company' pension but they can't just go on strike and kick up a fuss. Blimey most of us would be marched out of the door and told not to come back if we said we were going on strike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie Posted June 19, 2013 Report Share Posted June 19, 2013 The average teachers salary ( approx. £32000 per year) is actually less than it was in 2008 and hardly mega bucks. If teaching is so fantastic why have we got a shortage of teachers and why have we got record numbers leaving the profession? Anyone who thinks teachers work short hours has never been a teacher. Anyone who thinks a teachers job is a doddle should spend a day in a High school having to put up with gangs of low life who refuse to be taught. Teachers have no choice in supervising 'after hours' clubs or school residentials during there so called 'long holidays' Teachers are subjected to approximately 900 assaults per year by pupils in London alone, and the government are trying to scrap their final salary pension scheme, similar of course to the one that mp's have just renewed for themselves - hypocrites, and the biggest is Michael Gove. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted June 19, 2013 Report Share Posted June 19, 2013 Well Said Wolfie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted June 19, 2013 Report Share Posted June 19, 2013 I wouldn't become a teacher at any salary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted June 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2013 The average teachers salary ( approx. £32000 per year) is actually less than it was in 2008 and hardly mega bucks.If teaching is so fantastic why have we got a shortage of teachers and why have we got record numbers leaving the profession? Anyone who thinks teachers work short hours has never been a teacher. Anyone who thinks a teachers job is a doddle should spend a day in a High school having to put up with gangs of low life who refuse to be taught. Teachers have no choice in supervising 'after hours' clubs or school residentials during there so called 'long holidays' Teachers are subjected to approximately 900 assaults per year by pupils in London alone, and the government are trying to scrap their final salary pension scheme, similar of course to the one that mp's have just renewed for themselves - hypocrites, and the biggest is Michael Gove. Most people would be over the bloody moon for a salary of £32,000 a year. I have my own company, have employed countless people and contributed handsomely to the tax coffers over the years and I still don't take a wage over £32,000 We get the same rhetoric about nurses leaving the NHS, Police leaving the Police force.... it is all numbers and numbers. I have worked in over 300 schools and rarely are there kids sat in the hall without teachers because they use supply teachers (who are also handsomely rewarded) and no doubt where these all of these teachers who are leaving the profession end up Try and get a teacher to stay behind after school so that you can sort out their IT and whiteboard problems.... a problem we face quite often I can tell you. At lunch time you can't get them out of the staff room and at end of school the car parks look like a Le Mans start.... Teachers who claim that kids don't want to be taught should maybe look at their teaching methods.... many many high schools have excellent records and results so maybe they could learn something from their peers. No choice in supervising after school clubs??? What school is this? Teachers are contracted to work a set number of hours/days/weeks.... they cannot be made to do anything above and beyond that Teachers being assaulted is nothing new.... it happened in my day and the response was a slap back, a cane from the headteacher and expulsion. the problem today is not helped by the fact that so many teachers over the years have championed the softly softly approach and championed the getting rid of corporal punishment and the use of expulsion unless it is absolutely the last resort. If assaults are on the increase; again I would look to those doing the teaching and the fact they have no physical disciplines to fall back on and throw some of the blame back on them Final salary pension scheme? Bloody hell, I wish! and as for MP's; they are all crooks and people who couldn't get a proper job in the real world just saying like 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie Posted June 20, 2013 Report Share Posted June 20, 2013 Not sure which schools you go in that use Supply teachers Baz, but most schools use Teaching assistants in the short term for cover, saving the school thousands and obviously affecting the childrens education, but I wonder how many parents have complained about that. Most only get upset when they have no one to look after their own kids for a day. As for contractual hours, you forgot to mention the schools get out clause. "A teacher is required to work such ‘reasonable additional hours’ as may be necessary to enable the effective discharge of the teacher’s professional duties." Also "There are no limits on the amount of time that can be used for 'meetings' in or after teaching hours" Of course the people responsible for saving all this money but at the same time fiddling the standards are the Head Teachers who have been well bribed sorry rewarded. The same people who ship out all the trouble makers for a day out to Rhyl (Educational trip) while Ofsted are in, to enable the school to maintain its 'Outstanding Quality' banner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted June 20, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2013 Most only get upset when they have no one to look after their own kids for a day. Oh that old chestnut.... have a go at the parents when the so called professional teachers want to cause disruption to the education of their pupils??? Teachers are paid to go to work to teach kids. Parents of those kids have a finite number of holidays and therefore have every bloody right to expect that on Thursday 27th June that their kids will be in school while they can go to work to pay the salaries of the teachers who are striking. I have absolutely no sympathy with someone on 30K plus dictating the rules to parents and criticising them when they take kids out of school #unless of course it is to go to religious festivals across the globe for weeks on end - (which one of my neighbours does on a fairly regular basis to the point where their child missed the first three weeks of their new high school term# with no comebacks and yet all hell breaks loose if you want to take your child away for a well deserved holiday once a year which just happens to infringe on the school term by a day or so. They need to be in school; doing their job and if they do so much work outside of the normal part time hours they put in; why don't they strike in the middle of half term instead of marking their books or planning a lesson..... or would that not cause enough disruption for them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted June 20, 2013 Report Share Posted June 20, 2013 Frankly, like many of our public services, education has been so corrupted by trendy ideas and political interference, that I'm afraid it appears to be in terminal decline; at a time when it's contribution to our economic competitiveness will be vital. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie Posted June 20, 2013 Report Share Posted June 20, 2013 Think you proved my point Baz, No problem in taking kids out of school for a weeks holiday but lose 1 day to a strike and professional teachers want to cause disruption to the education of their pupils Maybe it's not just mp's who are hypocrites. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted June 20, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2013 I did not prove your point at all... I stated that the hypocrites are the teachers. They are quite prepared to put themselves before the kids in their charge but frown on anyone taking kids out of school for any other reason. I used the holidays as an example, but people have been denied authorised time off to go to family weddings and such like. these strikes are far from authorised and affect a damned sight more pupils than any individual act by a parent. Plus; as I said they are being paid a bloody good wage to proliferate their lefty nonsense on the kids they teach. They are contracted and paid for 1,265 hours a year or 39 weeks which gives them 13 weeks during which they still get paid and some teachers get summer holiday jobs (or mark exam papers), and so get paid a double salary over the summer! They will never ever get sympathy from the majority of the public when they are on a) a 30k+ salary a year, 13 weeks minimum holiday which is still classed as being paid even though teachers do not get actual holiday pay as such and c) great terms and conditions.... a teacher at one of the schools I deal with in Manchester is nearly at the end of a sabbatical where she has gone round the world with her daughter (I followed them on Facebook!) and she is walking straight back into her old job when she returns to school in September My sister was a teacher and my sons girlfriend is a teacher; I know what an easy life some of them get and that some get a bit of stick.... but that is mainly down to how they teach as well as who they teach. They really are on a different planet and don't know how lucky they are Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie Posted June 20, 2013 Report Share Posted June 20, 2013 I think you are becoming paranoid Baz. According to you every Teacher, Nurse, Policeman etc etc are all bone idle, left wing parasites. I take it that like most parents then you aren't bothered about Teaching assistants replacing Professional Teachers and the effects of that on your children's education. It's not the Teachers that control what time off children are allowed for weddings, funerals, parties etc, it's the Heads and they are controlled by the government and that's one of the reasons why teachers are going on strike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tedrogers Posted June 20, 2013 Report Share Posted June 20, 2013 I've never understood what they think they're achieving with one day strikes here and there - except causing massive disruption to their customers (the parents) and forcing many of them to use up precious annual leave time (which only further highlights how much more annual leave teachers get than almost anyone else in the workforce).Teachers work really hard, long hours, evenings and weekends. The holidays are often 'work from home' days. Does that justify the pay? I don't think so, the pay is woefully inadequate. Strikes...yes this hurts the parents and students and not the people it should hurt, the government. Pointless really, but what other avenues could they pursue to protect their hard earned pensions? Furthermore, teaching is not a job you can put to bed at 5pm. It's the kind of job that keeps you awake at night. Teachers should be paid a lot more in my opinion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbo Posted June 20, 2013 Report Share Posted June 20, 2013 Furthermore, teaching is not a job you can put to bed at 5pm.. Correct, and standards will never improve until discipline is restored into the classroom and that requires government backing. From what I've seen most parents don't give a toss about their kids as long as they are not getting under their feet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fugtifino Posted June 20, 2013 Report Share Posted June 20, 2013 Well, it's not quite that bad just yet, Robbo, but it does only take a couple with such parents to disrupt a class. Oh, and what ted and wolfman said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadako Posted June 20, 2013 Report Share Posted June 20, 2013 It really frustrates me when people make assumptions and tar all teachers with the same brush. This isn't the first time I have expressed my anger and I know it will not be the last. You have to remember that education doesn't just take place in high schools. There is primary, further and higher education. There are teachers in schools, colleges, universities, community centres, prisons, and homes. The list is endless. How can anyone be so ignorant and assume that teachers all have the same experiences and all work to the same contract? Wolfie is correct about the ‘overtime’. I have contracted hours, but I certainly exceed those hours every week. Each educational establishment is different and are managed in different ways. At the end of the day, it is a business and it is always those at the bottom of the ladder that take the s***. Schools and colleges will have different cohorts. Some will be easy to manage; some will be an utter nightmare. There will be some places that will allow their staff to stroll in at 9am and leave at 3pm. My personal opinion is that if they can do this and don’t do extra work from home, then they are not doing their job properly. I have been a teacher for a few years now. I don’t earn as much as the average wage posted on here, although a lot of teachers do (average salary after approximately 7 years of teaching). I arrive at work at 7am and very rarely leave before 5pm (7pm some days as my last class does not finish until 6:30). I do this as it is my way of coping with the workload. My lunch times usually consist of a snack or a sandwich by my computer while I complete marking and registers. This will often be replaced by revision classes, monitored study that I don’t get asked to do, but I offer it to student because I care. As for holidays, I work from home without fail. I even come in during this period to teach extra course work sessions if there are students who need extra support. This might not be every day, but in all honesty, I believe that those ‘extra’ holidays are well deserved and I view it as taking time back in lieu for all the extra hours I put in at work and at home. I am not a teacher who will be striking (mainly because I can’t afford to and need the time to complete work) but I do support those that decide to. The strikes in the past have been to do with keeping those teacher benefits rather that asking for more. Why should it be taken from them? Just because others are not earning the same or don’t have a pension to pay into doesn’t mean that others should suffer. Ted – You are spot on with your comment “teaching is not a job you can put to bed at 5pm”. I find it extremely difficult to switch off at night and will find myself struggling to sleep as I am worrying about how I am going to achieve this deadline or how I am going to get ‘Johnny can’t be arsed’ to attend lessons before I get into trouble. At the age of 18, if they don’t attend and don’t complete the work then it is always my fault. Robbo, you are not that far from the truth when it comes to some education establishments. I deal with a lot of parents who give a damn about their kids. Baz – You said that “teachers over the years have championed the softly softly approach”. I would love nothing more than to be able to discipline my students properly, but the ‘softly softly’ approach is actually backed by a lot of the parents and higher up. I’m not quite sure what you mean by your comment about throwing some of the blame back on them? Do you mean that it is the teachers fault if they are victim to an assault because they don’t discipline properly? It is really easy to blame staff for problems in education when it is the government and management making a lot of the rules. I completely understand why so many are leaving the profession. And Finally Baz, as a man who visits so many schools and seems to think that he knows everything there is to know about the teaching profession, I hope that you weren’t the electrician that was working at our place the other day. He was whistling at students outside in his van and parked his van behind my car so that I couldn’t leave so that he could get a good look at me. I was that disgusted a complaint had to be put forward to the head….In my experience, all work men and electricians I know carry out botched jobs and are all perverts. You see it all the time on the television and read about it in the papers…it must be true. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted June 20, 2013 Report Share Posted June 20, 2013 Well put Sadako ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted June 20, 2013 Report Share Posted June 20, 2013 Yes well put Sadako Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fugtifino Posted June 21, 2013 Report Share Posted June 21, 2013 That's a top post, sadako, but have you ever had to go into a school to change the plug on the staff room kettle? Now, that's hard work, missie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadako Posted June 21, 2013 Report Share Posted June 21, 2013 ...change a plug on a kettle? Ha. I'm not that stupid, I'd buy a new kettle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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