Steve Parish Posted July 15, 2013 Report Share Posted July 15, 2013 .... and as for the last statement; wasn't it mostly the self same officers and councillors who, just a few short years ago were doing dodgy, secret back room deals to sell off Walton Hall and gardens to a hotel chain? Quite possibly the most used facility in the whole of the town and you lot were trying to flog it!!.... unbelievable. now a few reminders of questions asked previously: 1. the old Forge machinery from Stockton Heath.... what happened to it and has anyone been brought to task as to its' whereabouts? 2. The cap from the Cockhedge Mills chimney....are there plans to put it back in the town where it belongs? or is that too going to disappear on a Sunday to some local scrapyard? 3. With regards to Bewsey Old Hall; If it wasn't the councils to sell; who actually owned it and how did they acquire it? I just find it incredible that we had money to spend on skittles and cobbles for Bridge Street and yet nothing to keep a bit of heritage in the town That was the former Lib Dem / Tory coalition trying to do a deal to lease out Walton Hall. The present Labour administration has various plans to improve the hall and gardens and keep it accessible to the public so I look forward to your vote at the next election. 1. No idea - I'm not even sure what machinery you mean. 2. Well, as I campaigned to save it (long before being a councillor) I'm disappointed that it didn't go back to what's now the flower bed in front of the bus station. If it was council land I think I'd put it on the triangle at the junction of Winwick St and Haydock St, and get rid of that awful plinth where the steel bird was - but I imagine there'd be a cost to putting it anywhere (and while it would be a shame to lose it, I'd rather have the award-winning skittles...) 3. Bewsey Old Hall well thrashed out on here 2/3 years ago, and a dead issue now. Let's just say you can't complain about council tax and expect the council to take on buildings like that (just as now we'd have to say no to the Greenalls' kind offer of giving us Walton Hall and Gardens) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted July 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2013 That was the former Lib Dem / Tory coalition trying to do a deal to lease out Walton Hall. The present Labour administration has various plans to improve the hall and gardens and keep it accessible to the public so I look forward to your vote at the next election. Steve; I know that we are having a few climate change issues here on planet earth, but for the last part of your statement above; it would need to get a whole lot colder for me to ever even consider doing that... Now if you were all independents; without having to worry about toeing the party line and getting excluded from parties and blackballed.... then I may just vote for you 1. No idea - I'm not even sure what machinery you mean. When Stockton Heath Forge Shopping Centre was refurbished some years ago, all of the old forge machinery (similar to the one on Battersby Lane from the old wire works) was removed from various places around the centre and apparently sold by the developer for scrap. The machinery was really old and came from the old Stockton Heath Forge (hence the name)... another example of the blasé attitude to heritage in Warrington 2. Well, as I campaigned to save it (long before being a councillor) I'm disappointed that it didn't go back to what's now the flower bed in front of the bus station. If it was council land I think I'd put it on the triangle at the junction of Winwick St and Haydock St, and get rid of that awful plinth where the steel bird was - but I imagine there'd be a cost to putting it anywhere (and while it would be a shame to lose it, I'd rather have the award-winning skittles...) I would agree to disagree on that one.... I have never ever spoken to anyone who lives in Warrington that has a good word to say about the monstrous skittles (or the river of life for that matter... usual reaction is one of solemnity and sadness rather than excitement about the feature; due to what it represents)... If we must have the skittles...if we must; put the chimney cap in the centre of Market Gate where the water feature is and incorporate it into there instead of trying to hide it away somewhere? 3. Bewsey Old Hall well thrashed out on here 2/3 years ago, and a dead issue now. Let's just say you can't complain about council tax and expect the council to take on buildings like that (just as now we'd have to say no to the Greenalls' kind offer of giving us Walton Hall and Gardens) I don't complain about council tax per say.... I complain about how you lot in power waste it..... a million quid to install traffic lights at Westbrook etc..... let's just say that there was once plenty of money about to keep and restore the likes of Bewsey Old Hall and the Old Boteler School; long before the cuts in funding, however the councillors chose not to spend it keeping these buildings for the town. I wouldn't have minded buying Bewsey Old Hall myself; trouble was, from what I can see, it was never advertised for sale by the council or the New Town or anyone as far as I could find.... last time I went in the Old Hall I was a kid when Old Man Cracksey lived there with his Alsatian; my aunty was a maid in the Old hall and now it is home (or soon will be) to a bunch of yuppies who have no idea of the history or importance of the place Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algy Posted July 16, 2013 Report Share Posted July 16, 2013 That was the former Lib Dem / Tory coalition trying to do a deal to lease out Walton Hall. The present Labour administration has various plans to improve the hall and gardens and keep it accessible to the public so I look forward to your vote at the next election. 1. No idea - I'm not even sure what machinery you mean. 2. Well, as I campaigned to save it (long before being a councillor) I'm disappointed that it didn't go back to what's now the flower bed in front of the bus station. If it was council land I think I'd put it on the triangle at the junction of Winwick St and Haydock St, and get rid of that awful plinth where the steel bird was - but I imagine there'd be a cost to putting it anywhere (and while it would be a shame to lose it, I'd rather have the award-winning skittles...) 3. Bewsey Old Hall well thrashed out on here 2/3 years ago, and a dead issue now. Let's just say you can't complain about council tax and expect the council to take on buildings like that (just as now we'd have to say no to the Greenalls' kind offer of giving us Walton Hall and Gardens) Steve, this is the machinery that stood at the entrance to the Forge Shopping Centre, not exactly something that you could run off with in a wheelbarrow is it!. i suggest you have a word with Mike Biggin, I know he has had a look at what is stored in the Sandy Lane store. Credit to the excellent website "My Warrington" <http://www.mywarrington.me.uk/index.htm> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algy Posted July 16, 2013 Report Share Posted July 16, 2013 I feel an 'Adolph' video coming on!. Do it Alge....Please! They were so funny. Cleo, Started it this morning, hopefully ready for weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleopatra Posted July 16, 2013 Report Share Posted July 16, 2013 Look forward to it Alge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted July 16, 2013 Report Share Posted July 16, 2013 Algy that was one of two pieces of machinery that used to stand on display (by the way the info about it on the 'mywarrington' site where you got the pic from is incorrect. that is NOT the one that mysteriously went missing one Saturday night (1 July 2006 to be precise) and was eventually tracked down by a group of residents.... that was the other one, with the two big rollers, that used to stand further up near the coop (where the art shop is now). You/SteveP or anyone else wont find either of them in the Sandy Lane Store. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algy Posted July 16, 2013 Report Share Posted July 16, 2013 Fairy Nuff! Dizz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted July 16, 2013 Report Share Posted July 16, 2013 I wish Baz hadn't mentioned the Forge machines now though and that you hadn't posted that picture as I've tried to stay away from this topic for fear that I would go into a right old rant. I'm now sat here getting more annoyed by the minute as I think back to what happened to them and how non of it should have been allowed to happen !!! Damn Warrington New Town, Damn Council, Damn JBZ, Damn Peel Holdings, and why on earth Stockton Heath Parish Council/Warrington Borough Council never got them listed is another bloody annoyance... Grrrrrrrr ! I need some time out quick !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Posted July 16, 2013 Report Share Posted July 16, 2013 Well, apart from ridiculous comments on here, there's not even any smoke. Listing of "designated heritage assets" is up to the Department for Culture and Local Government, advised by English Heritage. A council can have its own "local list" but an "undesignated heritage asset" doesn't have any statutory protection, and many councils (including Liverpool) don't bother. Planning consent was granted in the full knowledge that it meant demolishing the old school (which was not listed). The Rylands office block was demolished - the cottages next to "The Cottage" were adapted as the Rylands board room - and they're now within the Church St Conservation Area. It's clear that a lot of heritage buildings were lost in times past, but I really don't think there's any call to accuse present members or officers of not caring for the built heritage. http://www.warrington.gov.uk/downloads/file/911/church_street_conservation_area_appraisal ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------I agree there are times when the council needs a pat on the back and a well done, saving off St Marys school, the saving of the cottage in front of Apple Court and next to the Cromwell cottageHowever the way the old school was demolished seems suspect and if there is no smoke then it shouldn't be hard to provide some answers, including when and why was trhe building sold to developers. I presume it was owned by the council at some point as the council were using its grounds. Also the question as to why the Bewsey Hall was sold.While you at it how about the old baths? While closing the old baths I am told (I apologies if this is wrong) investing in the facilities at the old pool in Orford, now demolished. While the new pool is very nice, but it is just a boring pool, no slides, no wave machines, no whirlpool, no 25 meter pool, so why was the old baths not refurbished to provide more swimming facilities that are desperately needed, Other council have managed it.. Currently the pools in Warrington are always shut for fun swimming, another pool is needed. OK ithe pools are open a couple of hours but never when I need it to be, especially the orford one. Then there is the old priory that was allowed to fall down. Was there not an application to open a night club in the old cabinet works, which was refused because it might damage the priory!!!! Again apologies if this is wrong.I was away from Warrington for a while.I wonder what will happen to the old technology collage, will it stand empty for another 10 year then get sold to developers who will demolish it. Then will whoever are the replacement clones running the council at the time use the excuse that it was not listed so it is OKPS and the conservation area is a right step, well done there! PPS I am told the council or anyone can request a building to be listed Edited to make it more readable, really need to consentrat more when posting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algy Posted July 16, 2013 Report Share Posted July 16, 2013 Coffee, the building you are talking about was indeed part of Rylands. It housed the printing dept., the laboratory, and the wages dept., You beat me to it Cleo! I really must keep up reading replies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Posted July 16, 2013 Report Share Posted July 16, 2013 Coffee, the building you are talking about was indeed part of Rylands. It housed the printing dept., the laboratory, and the wages dept., Missed this post, thanks for answering, thought it be part of Rylands How come it survived. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleopatra Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 The land wasn't needed by Sainsbury's, perhaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algy Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 Or a council member had bought the building , let's face it the building was occupied by 'Bents'. I was always under the impression that the car park at Sainsbury's belonged to them, not so, it's ownd by the WBC who allow the carwash company to operate there and also have a car park attendant checking the time that vehicles are parked and issueing tickets where they have overstayed the allowed time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted July 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 I understand that the clock tower on top of the church in the town centre also belongs to the Council..... I wonder if Steve could confirm this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davy51 Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 Steve, this is the machinery that stood at the entrance to the Forge Shopping Centre, not exactly something that you could run off with in a wheelbarrow is it!. i suggest you have a word with Mike Biggin, I know he has had a look at what is stored in the Sandy Lane store. Credit to the excellent website "My Warrington" <http://www.mywarrington.me.uk/index.htm> As nostalgic as this may be to some people ,on the evidence in the photo, it looks more like a neglected ,unwanted piece of scrap that is waiting for a gang of Gypos to run off with it to the scrap yard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 As nostalgic as this may be to some people ,on the evidence in the photo, it looks more like a neglected ,unwanted piece of scrap that is waiting for a gang of Gypos to run off with it to the scrap yard. I agree that it (and the other one) did look a bit neglected but IF THEY HAD BEEN LOOKED AFTER PROPERLY like they should have been by the council or with a little bit of a clean up and perhaps sensitive re-painting in situ they could have both looked lovely. Saying that maybe they were intentionally left in their rugged state to show what a hard life they’d had. The other machine further towards the coop (the one that went missing one Saturday night in 2006) was surrounded by scruffy bushes and was looking tired too. There was nothing near either of them to say what they were, why they were there or their history. Why didn’t they ever put plaques or perhaps a heritage notice board up near them as people would have understood why they were there and the significance. Idiots ! Actually…. Where did the spades and anvil go too that used to be on the wall near the chemist at the London Road entrance !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 1. No idea - I'm not even sure what machinery you mean. SteveP….. I’m surprised you have no idea what machinery Baz means as there’s been enough about them, their proposed removal, their possible re-siting and also their terrible fate in all the local press over the years So here’s a little bit of Local History for you ………….. Caldwell’s Stockton Heath Forge (or Caldwell's Spade Works as it was sometimes know) began manufacturing spades, shovels and other hand tools in Stockton Heath in 1770. I seem to think they started in smaller premises (maybe further up London Road or Walton Road) and if that's right I don't know what year they built/moved into the much larger new premises where the Forge precinct and car park stand today. Anyway…… In the 1970’s due to the New Town Development Plan, Stockton Heath Forge (Caldwells) moved to Dallam Lane with the old site being earmarked for development and the new shops etc. Warrington New Town Development Corporation asked if they could retain some of the items of machinery from the SH Forge, in their original state, so that they could be put on permanent display in the new shopping area as a reminder of the sites past industrial heritage, historical links and importance. These were A Cropping Press by Naismith c1867 2 Rolling Mills c1850 Lathe c1820 Caldwells agreed but rather than giving them the machines, to safeguard them Caldwells placed on ‘permenant loan’ to Warrington New Town Corporation with many clauses relating to them being properly looked after by the council and not left to deteriorate, that they would be given back to Caldwells at any time that they ceased to be displayed and that they could not be moved to another site or museum without Caldwell’s consent etc etc and also stated that IF the New Town Development Corporation/Council ever sold the site the new purchaser would be bound by the same agreement. Seems none of that really counted for much………. Anyway enough of that for now…. So why was Stockton Heath Forge so important and why the heritage value of the two pieces of machinery you might still be wondering … Well apart from the fact that it had traded in Stockton Heath for over 200 years having worldwide recognition (before moving to Dallam where they continued to trade for another 40 years) Spades and tools manufactured at Stockton Heath Forge, on those very machines, were used by The soldiers digging the trenches in the Battle of the Somme. During world war 1 army officers insisted on Stockton Heath Forge’s shovels to dig the trenches and that is what they got. Archaeologists working on the First World War site at Fromelles, near Lille, uncovered perfectly preserved digging tools which were traced back to Stockton Heath Forge thanks to the manufacturer’s mark and patent number. These are now on display at Fromelles museum near the battlefield in a corner of northern France popularly known as the Forgotten Front. The Caldwell family visited the museum and met the archaeologists. The spades and hand tools were also ordered and used to dig the Bridgewater Canal (as directly instructed by the Duke of Bridgewater). They were also used by the navies to dig the Manchester Ship Canal. They were used to dig the Panama Canal. They still have worldwide recognition today, collectors like to collect the old ones ... they still have the same manufacturers mark and patent as they did all those years ago and all from a forge in little old Stockton Heath Village. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algy Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 1850. Hamblett's Smithy situated in Narrow Lane now called West Avenue, Stockton Heath. The Hamblett family also had a smithy at Acton Grange prior to the building of the ship canal. I'm sure they also had something to do with SH Forge?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted July 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 So there you have it..... and you wonder why we don't trust the Council to preserve the towns' heritage!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davy51 Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 The other machine further towards the coop (the one that went missing one Saturday night in 2006) was surrounded by scruffy bushes and was looking tired too. That happened to me round about that time Dizzy ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davy51 Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 Isn't Caldwells still in business Dizzy. Didn't there used to be ,or still may be, a chimney cap near the new bus station near to where the buses enter Horsemarket St/ Winwick St. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted July 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 Isn't Caldwells still in business Dizzy. Didn't there used to be ,or still may be, a chimney cap near the new bus station near to where the buses enter Horsemarket St/ Winwick St. ? The cap is in storage in the council yard at Stockton Heath Davy... trouble is; they would rather we had skittles; which have no relevance to the towns heritage, than something from our industrial past... No doubt it will get damaged and be unable to be displayed knowing this lot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Parish Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 Ah well, I don't often go south of the river! I'd not really followed the fate of the machinery - where has it gone? Caldwells are still in business - in my ward. ... why on earth Stockton Heath Parish Council/Warrington Borough Council never got them listed is another bloody annoyance... Grrrrrrrr ! Because there was no chance of getting them listed. PPS I am told the council or anyone can request a building to be listed Well, yes, but not much point if doesn't meet the criteria for listing. (NB English Heritage won't list the Garnett tower because it's not significant enough - but they still want it saved!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted July 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 Well, yes, but not much point if doesn't meet the criteria for listing. (NB English Heritage won't list the Garnett tower because it's not significant enough - but they still want it saved!) well save the bloody thing then...... what on earth are the council doing with all this extra council tax from the likes of Chapelford? The roads are falling apart, the bins don't get emptied every week, they build a school then close another.... I mean come on; there must be a few quid left in the mayors inaugural booze up fund or something that could go towards it? What about national lottery funding? What about the EU? Nearly every other town and small village in France has something paid for by the EU.... can't you get some of the outrageous amount of cash we pay in to cover it? or is it just another old building that is in the way of the new town centre plan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Posted July 20, 2013 Report Share Posted July 20, 2013 Well, yes, but not much point if doesn't meet the criteria for listing. (NB English Heritage won't list the Garnett tower because it's not significant enough - but they still want it saved!) SO? Still was an important party of Warrington Let use take a different approch, please tell use why exactly the council and its councilers thought the school was not worth preserving? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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