What's all the fuss about?

[algy]

 

BTW Davy I served 2 years in the army, have you?

And that qualifies you as?, plus I don't think you volunteered General Wolf-ie.

[wolfie]

Actually mystic algy I did.

[algy]

Actually mystic algy I did.

Seriously Wolfie, I wasn't aware that you could volunteer for two years I thought that the minimum was three with two for national service, which I was called up for in 1958 but because I was in a reserved occupation i was deferred until i finished my time in 1961 and by that time it had been abolished, at the time I was really gutted as my mates were either in Hong Kong or Germany and when they came home on leave in uniform they used to 'bag' all the dolly birds.

[fugtifino]

Hmm, didn’t take long for the name calling to start, and it’s usually the freeper types who start it.

 

I usually try to play the ball and not the, er, poster, but here’s a couple of things to ponder.

 

If myself and others here are “luvvies” (and, no, this term doesn’t automatically win any kind of argument), are those who are not “hayties”?

If I’m a “fair play merchant”, are the others “cheaters” or “death merchants”?

 

I know which I’d rather be.

 

 

Then there’s stuff like this:

 

http://www.policymic.com/articles/15340/drone-strikes-in-pakistan-have-killed-thousands-of-civilians

 

Imo, a laughable 2% success rate is not enough to justify the use of these things, and if that makes me a..., well, whatever, sticks and stones and all that.

 

If you think a 2% success rate is enough to justify their use, then I think you know what that makes you in my book.

[algy]

Fugs, whats a 'freeper type', I would like to know in case I'm one and then I can alter my ways and 'unfreeper type' myself.

[fugtifino]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=freeper

[Robbo]

A faceless person leaving a bomb that kills civilians in the middle of Bridge st is a terrorist act. (Shock and Horror)

A faceless person controlling a drone that kills civilians while he is sat in his office with a cup of tea and a biscuit is US Policy.

Excellent post Wolfie.

Good link fugs.

[observer]

What's all this "faceless" nonsense?  From the artillery at Mons, to the RAF over the Ruhr, to a modern ICBM silo team; killing coldly and at a distance has always been the trend.

[algy]

I usually try to play the ball and not the, er, poster, but here’s a couple of things to ponder.

 

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=freeper

 

Hmmm!

[fugtifino]

Well, you started it.

[algy]

As usual!!!. :lol:

[observer]

Handbags at 3 paces, is that "up close and personal" enough?!!!  

[Davy51]

Why have they moved from America?

If the BBC say they won't use weapons it must be true .......how naive.

 

A faceless person leaving a bomb that kills civilians in the middle of Bridge st is a terrorist act. (Shock and Horror)

A faceless person controlling a drone that kills civilians while he is sat in his office with a cup of tea and a biscuit is US Policy.

 

BTW Davy I served 2 years in the army, have you?

 

 

It isn't necessary to have served in the army to pass an opinion , in my opinion .

[wolfie]

True, but  your implication that 'protesting luvvies' would be the last in the queue to enlist, is merely supposition to support your view.

 

" Not even the CIA, let alone ordinary citizens, has any idea of the identity of many of the people they are targeting for death. Despite this central ignorance, huge numbers of people walk around in some sort of zombie-like state repeatedly spouting the mantra that "Drones are Good because We are Killing the Terrorists" - even though the CIA itself, let alone citizens defending its killings, have no clue who is even being targeted.

It has long been known that Obama (like Bush before him) approved the use of signature strikes where the identity of the target is not known but they are targeted for death anyway "based on a 'pattern of life' analysis – intelligence on their behavior suggesting that an individual is a militant" (the New York Times reported that "the joke [at the State Department] was that when the CIA sees 'three guys doing jumping jacks', the agency thinks it is a terrorist training camp" and that "men loading a truck with fertilizer could be bombmakers - but they might also be farmers".

[algy]

Handbags at 3 paces, is that "up close and personal" enough?!!!  

Sorry obs noting to do with the topic, but that's not unsual is it, I prefer 4 paces you can get a better swing.

[observer]

Think the clue is in the title of these collective agencies - "SECRET Service". Not sure their operations would remain secret if they had to run a public consultation exercise on all their missions !  Alg: you've been in training I see !  

[Robbo]

"Drones are Good because We are Killing the Terrorists"

 

And that appears to be the only opinion being used by the Drones are Good brigade

[wolfie]

"Drones are Good because We are Killing the Terrorists"

 

And that appears to be the only opinion being used by the Drones are Good brigade

Yeh, and they do tend to 'drone' on.

[algy]

The FAA are already considering to allow limited licences to allow civil UAV aircraft to fly in civilian airspace.

 

Links are either underlined or highlighted.

 

 

Some alternative uses for UAV (Drones) in a hostile environment.

 

TYPE: Hyperspectral Sensor

BATTLEFIELD USE

Earlier this year the Air Force quietly deployed a new sensor called Aces Hy on its Predator drone in Afghanistan. It can see objects on the ground not visible to the human eye, such as hidden roadside bombs or illicit opium crops. Aces Hy is a hyperspectral imaging sensor developed by Raytheon Corp. Such sensors can pick up light across the electromagnetic spectrum, allowing them to detect the composition of specific objects based on their spectral "fingerprint." These sensors have been previously used on satellites and on manned aircraft like Shadow Harvest, a Defense Intelligence Agency C-130 aircraft. But they are now migrating to drones.

DOMESTIC FUTURE

Hyperspectral sensors would have a variety of applications for homeland security. For example, Canadian researchers have already experimented with using hyperspectral imagery to find unmarked graves, which they believe could allow police to help find possible murder victims. Scientists also believe that hyperspectral mapping could be used to discriminate illegal crops such as marijuana from surrounding plants. Outside of law enforcement, mineral prospectors could benefit from airborne assaying, and farmers could get detailed information about their land.

K-Max (K-1200)

 

THE GOOD

The K-Max helicopter, certified to fly as far back as 1994, is a synchropter— a helicopter with intermeshing rotors that spin in different directions to optimize lift. It can operate without a tail rotor. Since its deployment in December of last year, K-max has delivered more than 1 million pounds of cargo and supplies to Marines stationed in Afghanistan, decreasing the need for trucks to travel routes that could be lined with roadside bombs. Beyond military purposes, the unmanned vehicle could also be used like its civilian relatives, assisting with construction projects and providing disaster relief.

Not all bad news!, Don't forget it is doubtful if aviation would be as advanced as it is today if it had not been for two world wars and Vietnam!.

[Davy51]

Yes , but on the other hand, did the Bridge Street bomber ,the gas works bomber or the terrorist who  uses a mobile phone to detonate his bomb use anything other than remote methods to achieve his aim with very little or no warning. The Warrington bombers used the best remote device of all ,a timer so they weren't there for the explosions. At least targets in Afghanistan will be able see the drones patrolling so they can at least try & shoot them down.It was only 2 weeks ago on this forum that it was suggested that one of the biggest remote  weapons on earth ,the nuclear bomb, should be used against North Korea.  I can't believe the opposition to drones being used in such a theatre of war as Afghanistan where the normal niceities & rules of war are not observed  & the sheperd with his flock could be an Al Qaeda terrorist. Or is the better option to have sons & daughters coming back in coffins ?

[algy]

Davy mate, your wasting your time trying to talk sense on here, I don't normally venture on to the top floor of this forum as this is where 50% are wrong and 50% are correct, the problem is it's a toss of the coin as to which is which, I think maybe it depends on the phase of the moon. I only come up here to stir the pot so to speak, but don't tell em' will you.

[Davy51]

Our little secret Algy .

[wolfie]

Davy mate, your wasting your time

I totally agree.

[observer]

Viewing some of the nonsense on here, perhaps a return to conscription and a 6 month tour in Afghanistan, might bring a little common sense into the equation.

[fugtifino]

Don't always see eye to eye with Yasmin Alibhai Brown, but she pretty much sums up what I think about all of this:

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/behind-the-use-of-drones-is-a-complacent-belief-that-murdering-muslims-is-always-justifiable-8591521.html

 

And I know I keep banging on about the low hit rates, but I do have to ask: is it acceptable to all the droners here that for approximately every known terrorist killed by these things, 49 innocent people die, and countless others are maimed?