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  1. 2 points
    The term "hard" or "soft" Brexit was invented by the Remoaners, in order to sell the idea of somekind of half leaving, where we would accumulate the up sides whilst getting rid of the downsides (something Labour still seem to believe), thus the birth of cakeism. It was only when they introduced it, that I discovered that by voting LEAVE, I was voting for a hard Brexit, complete seperation, and finally independence for the UK; no political dictatorship from unelected Brussels beaurocrats; no coughing up £10 billion a year to bail out basket case economies in the Balkans wanting to join, no more total incompetance in allowing in illegal migrants, and no more free movement of people from EU States, whether they have a job or not.. The reality is, that ultimately, the pragmatism of the market will sort out the trade issues, as such a large market on their doorstep will not be ignored by German car makers or French, Belgian, Dutch, and Irish farmers etc. Spain, Portugal, Italy and Greece (all with a large unemployment issue), will not wish to impede the thousands of British tourists visiting their countries either. The PM has been too timid or has tried the soft option, and the EU has taken advantage all along, walking away will bring them to their senses.
  2. 2 points
    Especially the french. "we don't like that. BLOCKADE THE PORTS" 🚣‍♂️🚣‍♂️
  3. 2 points
    Democracy has already been thwarted. The people's vote of 2016 has been betrayed by the civil servants & it is doubtful that any of the Brexiteers actually have the bottle to seize the poisoned chalice from Mrs May. The democratic will of the people has been ignored.
  4. 1 point
    What has always puzzled me is the way that the UK hangs on to the coat tails of every EU law. Other EU countries pick & choose which laws suit them.
  5. 1 point
    From Steerpike at the Spectator ref. the Withdrawal Agreement: The top 40 horrors: From the offset, we should note that this is an EU text, not a UK or international text. This has one source. The Brexit agreement is written in Brussels. May says her deal means the UK leaves the EU next March. The Withdrawal Agreement makes a mockery of this. “All references to Member States and competent authorities of Member States…shall be read as including the United Kingdom.” (Art 6). Not quite what most people understand by Brexit. It goes on to spell out that the UK will be in the EU but without any MEPs, a commissioner or ECJ judges. We are effectively a Member State, but we are excused – or, more accurately, excluded – from attending summits. (Article 7) The European Court of Justice is decreed to be our highest court, governing the entire Agreement – Art. 4. stipulates that both citizens and resident companies can use it. Art 4.2 orders our courts to recognise this. “If the European Commission considers that the United Kingdom has failed to fulfil an obligation under the Treaties or under Part Four of this Agreement before the end of the transition period, the European Commission may, within 4 years after the end of the transition period, bring the matter before the Court of Justice of the European Union”. (Art. 87) The jurisdiction of the ECJ will last until eight years after the end of the transition period. (Article 158). The UK will still be bound by any future changes to EU law in which it will have no say, not to mention having to comply with current law. (Article 6(2)) Any disputes under the Agreement will be decided by EU law only – one of the most dangerous provisions. (Article 168). This cuts the UK off from International Law, something we’d never do with any foreign body. Arbitration will be governed by the existing procedural rules of the EU law – this is not arbitration as we would commonly understand it (i.e. between two independent parties). (Article 174) “UNDERLINING that this Agreement is founded on an overall balance of benefits, rights and obligations for the Union and the United Kingdom” No, it should be based upon the binding legal obligations upon the EU contained within Article 50. It is wrong to suggest otherwise. The tampon tax clause: We obey EU laws on VAT, with no chance of losing the tampon tax even if we agree a better deal in December 2020 because we hereby agree to obey other EU VAT rules for **five years** after the transition period. Current EU rules prohibit 0-rated VAT on products (like tampons) that did not have such exemptions before the country joined the EU. Several problems with the EU’s definitions: “Union law” is too widely defined and “United Kingdom national” is defined by the Lisbon Treaty: we should given away our right to define our citizens. The “goods” and the term “services” we are promised the deal are not defined – or, rather, will be defined however the EU wishes them to be. Thus far, this a non-defined term so far. This agreement fails to define it. The Mandelson Pension Clause: The UK must promise never to tax former EU officials based here – such as Peter Mandelson or Neil Kinnock – on their E.U. pensions, or tax any current Brussels bureaucrats on their salaries. The EU and its employees are to be immune to our tax laws. (Article 104) Furthermore, the UK agrees not to prosecute EU employees who are, or who might be deemed in future, criminals (Art.101) The GDPR clause. The General Data Protection Regulation – the EU’s stupidest law ever? – is to be bound into UK law (Articles 71 to 73). There had been an expectation in some quarters that the UK could get out of it. The UK establishes a ‘Joint Committee’ with EU representatives to guarantee ‘the implementation and application of this Agreement’. This does not sound like a withdrawal agreement – if it was, why would it need to be subject to continued monitoring? (Article 164). This Joint Committee will have subcommittees with jurisdiction over: (a) citizens’ rights; (b) “other separation provisions”; (c) Ireland/Northern Ireland; (d) Sovereign Base Areas in Cyprus; (e) Gibraltar; and (f) financial provisions. (Article 165) The Lifetime clause: the agreement will last as long as the country’s youngest baby lives. “the persons covered by this Part shall enjoy the rights provided for in the relevant Titles of this Part for their lifetime”. (Article 39). The UK is shut out of all EU networks and databases for security – yet no such provision exists to shut the EU out of ours. (Article The UK will tied to EU foreign policy, “bound by the obligations stemming from the international agreements concluded by the Union” but unable to influence such decisions. (Article 124) All EU citizens must be given permanent right of residence after five years – but what counts as residence? This will be decided by the EU, rather than UK rules. (Articles 15-16) Britain is granted the power to send a civil servant to Brussels to watch them pass stupid laws which will hurt our economy. (Article 34) The UK agrees to spend taxpayers’ money telling everyone how wonderful the agreement is. (Article 37) Art 40 defines Goods. It seems to includes Services and Agriculture. We may come to discover that actually ‘goods’ means everything. Articles 40-49 practically mandate the UK’s ongoing membership of the Customs Union in all but name. The UK will be charged to receive the data/information we need in order to comply with EU law. (Article 50) The EU will continue to set rules for UK intellectual property law (Article 54 to 61) The UK will effectively be bound by a non-disclosure agreement swearing us to secrecy regarding any EU developments we have paid to be part. This is not mutual. The EU is not bound by such measures. (Article 74) The UK is bound by EU rules on procurement rules – which effectively forbids us from seeking better deals elsewhere. (Articles 75 to 78) We give up all rights to any data the EU made with our money (Art. 103) The EU decide capital projects (too broadly defined) the UK is liable for. (Art. 144) The UK is bound by EU state aid laws until future agreement – even in the event of an agreement, this must wait four years to be valid. (Article 93) Similar advantages and immunities are extended to all former MEPs and to former EU official more generally. (Articles 106-116) The UK is forbidden from revealing anything the EU told us or tells us about the finer points of deal and its operation. (Article 105). Any powers the UK parliament might have had to mitigate EU law are officially removed. (Article 128) The UK shall be liable for any “outstanding commitments” after 2022 (Article 142(2) expressly mentions pensions, which gives us an idea as to who probably negotiated this). The amount owed will be calculated by the EU. (Articles 140-142) The UK will be liable for future EU lending. As anyone familiar with the EU’s financials knows, this is not good. (Article143) The UK will remain liable for capital projects approved by the European Investment Bank. (Article 150). The UK will remain a ‘party’ (i.e. cough up money) for the European Development Fund. (Articles 152-154) And the EU continues to calculate how much money the UK should pay it. So thank goodness Brussels does not have any accountancy issues. The UK will remain bound (i.e coughing up money) to the European Union Emergency Trust Fund – which deals with irregular migration (i.e. refugees) and displaced persons heading to Europe. (Article 155) The agreement will be policed by ‘the Authority’ – a new UK-based body with ‘powers equivalent to those of the European Commission’. (Article 159) The EU admits, in Art. 184, that it is in breach of Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty which oblige it to “conclude an agreement” of the terms of UK leaving the EU. We must now, it seems, “negotiate expeditiously the agreements governing their future relationship.” And if the EU does not? We settle down to this Agreement. And, of course, the UK will agree to pay £40bn to receive all of these ‘privileges’. (Article 138)
  6. 1 point
    As most of us said from the beginning, it's Hotel California and anyone trying to escape will be humiliated in order to keep the rest in line. We can see the way the Brussels dictatorship operates, with their actions against Poland and Hungary, and now Italy; amazingly these countries are prepared to tolerate it - must be they're net recipients of EU funding. From the beginning the Gov has suffered from "cakeism", believing that an organisation founded on strict rules will bend them to suit the UK. Well this is their final offer, it's take it or leave it; and it's time Labour and the SNP woke up to the fact that it cannot be improved with 6 pie in the sky "tests". Leaving means - leaving the customs union, the single market and the ECJ; and if that means a hard border in Ireland - so be it. Yes it will mean initial hardship and confusion, but if our civil servants get off their butts and prepare for the worst, we'll overcome those difficulties. You can't make omlettes without cracking eggs. Now if MPs vote down the PM's plan, it leaves us crashing out next March, and in my opinion, that's fine, just get on with it.
  7. 1 point
    It is quite common for Management to report on work matters of which they have no understanding, indeed it is common every month! What he was told to do was get ready for a no deal. The fact that there are so many different views amongst MPs is the reason that it is no difficult to get agreement not the problem of the agreement. Have you read the documents or are you just repeating the opinions of the offenderati?
  8. 1 point
    unlike the remoaners who only blamed themselves for not getting enough people to vote their way i suppose.🤭
  9. 1 point
    Love her or hate her, the withdrawal negotiations would have been right up Thatcher's street. She would have had Barnier & his cronies crying in their continental breakfasts.
  10. 1 point
    Problem is Sid, there were only two alternatives on offer in the referendum, and the majority chose LEAVE. Then the majority of Remoaner politicians in Parliament got to work on producing a cocktail of confusion in order to block it. Seems crashing out is the only way to go now - out of the single market, out of the customs union, out of the ECJ, and if that means a hard border in Ireland - so be it. Oh, and don't pay the EU a penny too.
  11. 1 point
    Don’t know why he is buried alone, apart from the fact that he died in the first 3 weeks of the conflict, and the other 6 died in the last 7 days. Anyway, went to Fred’s Grave on Tuesday morning and left a single poppy. Soissons was definitely occupied in 1917, so I’m presuming the he was a POW.
  12. -1 points
    Going on recent performances the public should never be allowed anywhere near a referendum. Just look at the chaos and losses it’s already caused. Things weren’t perfect so the people voted to make things a damn site worse in the vague hope that from the ruin would come salvation.
  13. -1 points
    There could never be s good deal despite the hollow promises, lies and bs from the Brextremist campaign, the choice was always bad deal or no deal, both of which make the country poorer in many ways.
  14. -1 points
    I suppose the Leave brigade will now start blaming the negotiators, the politicians , The E U, in fact everybody but those to blame for this god almighty mess, blame for everyone except those actually responsible, themselves for voting for such a destructive course of action.
  15. -1 points
    Tosh, it’s an unmitigated failure that has a snowflakes chance in hell of passing parliament. So we have successive Brexit secretaries, each of whom have resigned and you claim they had nothing to do with the negotiations? Hilarious. So every time Raab came on the tv to tell us how negotiations were going he was just making it up? You really do miss the obvious a lot of the time. If he is as the affecting the negotiations what the hell was he being paid for?
  16. -1 points
    Offenderati? That’s this forums regularti surely? Offended by everything, I think it’s an age thing. The entire Brexit argument is unraveling with even the forums most rabid supporter accepting that “hardship” is on it’s way. Britain has been mugged off
  17. -1 points
    yet another Brexiteer numpty who doesn't really seem to get it. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/nadie-dorries-slams-brexit-deal-leave-remain-jk-rowling-a8639216.html?fbclid=IwAR0OD8AlBaeEEAz2p83fP01Z6oVzHvud3wjXYQPYp66vVXg6kclMqjnDkMs
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