Gary Posted July 28, 2014 Report Share Posted July 28, 2014 http://www.warrington-worldwide.co.uk/articles/18838/1/HS2-rail-line-will-affect-1452-homes-in-Warrington---a-third-of-the-total-for-the-country/Page1.html Ouch!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted July 28, 2014 Report Share Posted July 28, 2014 Could someone please clarify "affected"? Are properties going to be demolished or what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Sid Posted July 28, 2014 Report Share Posted July 28, 2014 some houses demolished, some houses views spoiled by train line, some houses noise from passing trains, some houses affected by vibration from passing trains. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inky pete Posted July 29, 2014 Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 I believe that the definition of "affected" being used is properties which will suffer sufficient detriment as to require conpensation to be paid. Whatever the definition, this shows that fully one third of all the "affected" houses on the proposed route are in one very short section of it - and it's not even a section which actually forms part of the high speed route, it's just the link to the existing west coast main line up near Platt Bridge! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freeborn John Posted July 29, 2014 Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 I find the 30% claim dubious, but no matter. I must admit I start at a disadvantage with HS2, not because I'll be affected by it at all, in fact I'd have to travel across town just to see it, but I can't work out why anybody would consider it's worth spending many billions on getting into the crime ridden pox hole which is our capital city. By the time the project is finally finished, and as London descends further into a third world slum, I suspect the truth of the thing will become apparent, its purpose is really to transport the great and the good of the business community out of the place each morning, not take them in... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inky pete Posted July 29, 2014 Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 The figures come from the project planners themselves. 4750 homes identified as being "affected" by the whole HS2 project, of which 1472 are in Warrington. Almost 31%. Oh, and you will be affected by it John. You'll be paying for it for the rest of your life and never see the slightest benefit from it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie Posted July 29, 2014 Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 I can understand why people would want to leave London and therefore require fast transport to get back in, but not sure it will ever become a third world slum. The average house price in London is now £400,000 and rising at about 20% per year. Funding by the Arts council amounts to £20 per head in London compared to £3 per head elsewhere. Funding on Museums and Galleries runs at £49 per head compared to £1 per head in the likes of Liverpool and Manchester. Add on to that that most of the major International airports are around London and the Investment banking based in London I would be very surprised if it didn't remain one of the richest cities in the World. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveewood Posted July 29, 2014 Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 What exactly is the source of these figures? Given the line goes past some heavily built-up areas (Tamworth, Long Eaton, Sheffield, Leeds) this sounds very dubious. And can someone explain how taking HS2 through the town centre would affect fewer properties? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Sid Posted July 30, 2014 Report Share Posted July 30, 2014 not many people live in the town centre. too many vertical drinking establishments and kebab shops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davy51 Posted July 30, 2014 Report Share Posted July 30, 2014 I don't know why the HS2 doesn't follow the west coast route up through town & then follow the already made junction at Earlestown to turn right to Manchester & left for Liverpool on a line that is being revamped anyway. That way Bank Quay could be on the route & extra journey time would be negligible in the grand scheme of things. In that way vast swathes of land would not need to be disturbed . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdrianR Posted July 30, 2014 Report Share Posted July 30, 2014 Chat Moss route to Mcr cannot take the speeds that HS2 needs. The upgrade would need upgrading again as the track inessence floats over chat moss then it just cannot take it. South of Bank Quay there are bottle necks (weaver viaduct / Winsford / Dutton Junction). Further there are only so many services you can send down one line of track. HS2 is going to add to that by freeing up the WCML. Turning left to Liverpool again has logistical problems such as Sankey Viaduct, Olive Mount Cutting and goes through some heavily residential areas. You again wouldnt get the speeds required and both routes would conflict with regional and urban services. if you want high speed rail you need new routes e.g. France. This comment neither endorses or disputes the need for HS2 before anyone has a go, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie Posted July 30, 2014 Report Share Posted July 30, 2014 Sitting on the fence then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdrianR Posted July 30, 2014 Report Share Posted July 30, 2014 Nope I have a view on it but didnt want people to think that the comment above endorsed either camps view. Just the facts thats all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grey_man Posted July 30, 2014 Report Share Posted July 30, 2014 One fact you've got partly right is that it will free free up the WCML. It will free up parts of it and reduce capacity on others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveewood Posted July 30, 2014 Report Share Posted July 30, 2014 One fact you've got partly right is that it will free free up the WCML. It will free up parts of it and reduce capacity on others. I don't follow - where would it reduce capacity? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grey_man Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 On those sections in which the trains are sharing paths with conventional trains. It's one of the issues that Liverpool is focussing on as part of its bid for a HS spur. It's also an issue that the Rail Freight Group has raised, claiming that capacity will be reduced on large parts of the network as a result of HS2, especially in the North. In addition, Network Rail has yet to rule out the idea of a hub and spoke network which would mean people travelling to HS stations to get fast intercity services while current lines are switched primarily to slow and local services. This is of particular concern to cities like Stoke and Coventry but also to an extent to Derby and Nottingham who will see fast direct services cut substantially from the current stations so people are encouraged to use the East Midlands Parkway HS station in Toton, halfway between the two cities. In my view, it's a very badly thought out project which has got engineers and politicians excited, but lacks imagination and thought. Compare it to something like the Northern Hub and Crossrail and you can see how dumb an idea it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davy51 Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 In the world of business, which this project is designed to woo , there really isn't the need for the service especially with internet to complete transactions & video conferencing on tap. The matter of pressing the flesh doesn't need to happen at supersonic speed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davy51 Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 According to the local news today there is now a grand scheme on the horizon to link up the major cities of northern England in an enterprise bloc to equal leviathan London. If that is to happen what is the point of HS2 , which is a passenger service, especially if the new intention is no longer just to turn the north into a more remote London commuter belt ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grey_man Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 HS2 has always been primarily about British engineers getting a new toy, the creation of property hotspots around stations and the diversion of billions of pounds of public money to private companies. That is why they constantly have to come up with new justifications for it. Each of the justifications - environment, capacity, speed, regional rebalancing - have proven to be false or flawed. Even the one that bears closest scrutiny - capacity - is mistaken because capacity problems are only evident South of Milton Keynes and on local commuter services throughout the UK. Compare all this nonsense to no-brainers like the Northern Hub and this new plan and it really shows HS2 up for what it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 According to the local news today there is now a grand scheme on the horizon to link up the major cities of northern England in an enterprise bloc to equal leviathan London. If that is to happen what is the point of HS2 , The Northern Hub is primarily about improving links to Manchester. A £20m airport project is part of the Northern Hub, which aims to electrify lines and improve the network in and around Manchester by 2019. A viaduct, called the Ordsall Chord aims to link Piccadilly, Oxford Road and Victoria stations and enable more trains to travel through Manchester city centre Direct services from Bradford, Halifax and Rochdale to Manchester Airport will also be introduced. Manchester Airport's extra platform aims to increase capacity and allow connections for businesses and travellers to the Airport City development. The benefit to Liverpool is simply to enable more trains to run to Manchester So it all ties in with HS2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grey_man Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 The Northern Hub is primarily about improving links to Manchester.A £20m airport project is part of the Northern Hub, which aims to electrify lines and improve the network in and around Manchester by 2019. A viaduct, called the Ordsall Chord aims to link Piccadilly, Oxford Road and Victoria stations and enable more trains to travel through Manchester city centre Direct services from Bradford, Halifax and Rochdale to Manchester Airport will also be introduced. Manchester Airport's extra platform aims to increase capacity and allow connections for businesses and travellers to the Airport City development. The benefit to Liverpool is simply to enable more trains to run to Manchester So it all ties in with HS2. That's a separate project to the new proposal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davy51 Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 I think the new scheme envisages a hive of industrial & financial activity stretching from the Mersey to the Humber ,pretty much like we have now, but on a scale to rival London & the south east. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 So what is extra in the new proposal to the already agreed project? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grey_man Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 It's as Davy described. The idea is to connect Northern cities so instead of having crap TransPennine 'Express' services wheezing along between them, you have proper high speed trains. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 But the original project includes electrification between Liverpool and Manchester, and Manchester to Leeds and Hull with new lines from Manchester to Bradford, Rochdale and Halifax, so what's new in the proposed scheme? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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