competagill

BROOK(E)S FAMILY

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Hi, I'm trying to do a family tree on my father's side. Around 1889 THOMAS BROOKS married FRANCES (FANNY). Her surname was either BROADHURST or KINDER. This is what I'm actually trying to find out for sure. The couple's definite children were FRED, MILLY AND ELSIE, and I think there were also ERNEST, THOMAS and maybe FRANCES.

If anyone has grandparents or great-grandparents with any of these names could you please let me know.

Alternatively if there are any genealogy fanatics out there willing to do a search of St. Elphins church records (or any other records they can access - I'd be very grateful. :) :onfire:

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My mothers maiden name was Brookes, she was born 23/12/1908 & i remember hearing her talk of an Uncle Ernie.(There was also an Ernie Brookes played for Warrington in the early 1900's).Whether she was related to the same Brookes as yourself i don't know but i will tell you what i can remember.

My mother was called Elizabeth (Lizzie),sisters Margaret(Maggie),Bessie,Dorothy (Dolly) & i remember her mentioning another called Lena who i think died as a fairly young adult .

Mother & father were Hannah & Herbert Leopold & i believe they lived at 64 Liverpool Rd.

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Hi WavyDavy, Thanks so much for posting this information for me. I'll check back and see if anybody ties in. Whether it does or not its very kind of you to bother answering my post. I'm sure there must be some connection somewhere, even if its second cousins three times removed!! I'm off to scour the fam.tree again now. Cheers Gill

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BROOKES FAMILY

Hi - I'm still trying to sort out my Family Tree!

So far I have my Father, LESLIE ALAN BROOKES, his Father and Mother FRED BROOKES & ELIZABETH (PARKER) and their many other children.

We then go back to Fred's Father THOMAS BROOKS & his wife FANNY (KINDER), and Elizabeth's parents SAMUEL PARKER & ELIZABETH GUEST.

If anyone can give me any info on any of the names, however small, please reply to this post.

Thanks loads Gill

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Hi Gill,

            Your great grandfather Thomas Brooks was my great great grandfather! He was born in Tattershall, Lincolnshire in 1866 before moving to Warrington. My Grandad, Bert Stanway, told me the names of his mother (Milly Brooks), her parents (Thomas & Frances Brooks) and her siblings (Ernest, Fred & Elsie Brooks), and I have since found more information. I found them all in the 1901 census, living on Forshaw Street, Warrington, and I found Thomas, Frances & Ernest Brooks in the 1891 census too, confirming Thomas Brooks had been born around 1866 in Tattershall. I also found Frances, her four Brooks children, her last husband, William Appleby and his daughter, living on Amelia Street, Warrington in the 1911 census, a few years ago, but like you, got stuck.

I had known that Thomas Brooks must have died after the 1901 census and before 1909, when Frances Brooks married William Henry Appleby, but had been unable to find any record of a Thomas Brooks, having been born around 1866, dying in Warrington in this period, however. I then searched the BMD index for deaths in Lincolnshire, but the only death record between 1901 and 1911 for a Thomas Brooks who had been born within a few years of 1866 was for a “Thomas Carter Brooks” who died in the Sleaford district, Lincolnshire, aged 41 years in the 3rd quarter of 1907.  

Your Grandfather must have been Fred Brooks (1892-1964), my great great uncle, who I think lived at 72 Lilford Avenue. My great grandmother was his sister Milly (1896-1970). According to my grandparents, her father, Thomas Brooks, became seriously ill and left Warrington to recover where his family lived in Lincolnshire, where he later died.

My grandparents told me my great grandmother Milly was sent to Lincolnshire on a train by herself to be with him when she was only seven, though they could have got confused and meant 1907. She stayed with an uncle Benjamin Brooks and his wife who lived in Billinghay. After her father died, they wanted to adopt her as they had no children of their own, but her mother, Frances, insisted she return to Warrington. My grandparents tell me they still have the letters all about this, between our distant uncle Benjamin Brooks and our ancestor Frances somewhere in their loft. They think Frances and her other children never went to Lincolnshire for Thomas Brooks' burial.

With this information, I then searched for a Benjamin Brooks living in Billinghay around this time on the census records, and found a Benjamin Brooks living in Billinghay with his wife Mary Jane and no children in both the 1901 and 1911 censuses. Both censuses said he had been born around 1873/4 in North Kyme, Lincolnshire, and so I searched for him again, with this information, and found him living with his parents in North Kyme in 1881. However, there was no mention of a brother “Thomas Brooks” on this census. The census did say, however, that Benjamin did have a brother “Carter Brooks”, who had been born 14 years earlier (ie. c.1866) in Tattershall, Lincolnshire.

Keeping in mind the only matching death record I found was for “Thomas Carter Brooks”, I then began to suspect that Carter Brooks and Thomas Brooks were one and the same. This was confirmed as there was no record of anyone named Carter Brooks after the 1881 census; From then on, Carter seems to disappear, at least until the death index entry for “Thomas Carter Brooks”. (Also, Billinghay is in the Sleaford registration district).

Carter Brooks was baptised in Tattershall in 1866, son of Thomas and Elizabeth Brooks. His father Thomas Brooks was born in Ewerby, Lincolnshire, around 1836 and died in the Sleaford registration district in the 1st quarter of 1913, aged 76 years. In 1860, he married Elizabeth Brown, in the Gainsborough district. She had been born in c.1834, Fillingham, Lincolnshire. After her marriage, she moved from the Gainsborough district to the Sleaford district, where she died in the 2nd quarter of 1911, aged 76 years.

According to the 1911 census, Thomas & Elizabeth Brooks had nine children, only four of whom were still living in 1911. The seven that I have found are listed as follows:

1.      Jane Ann Elizabeth (1861-1889),

2.      John Thomas (1864-1917),

3.      Carter “Thomas” (1866-1907),

4.      Willie (b.1868),

5.      Annie (1871-1890),

6.      Benjamin (1873-1944), and

7.      George (b.1876).

Thomas/Carter Brooks’ widow Frances married William Henry Appleby, a widower from Stoke in 1909, Warrington. According to the 1911 census they lived at 8 Amelia Street, Warrington with her children, Ernest (1889-1970), Fred (1892-1964), Milly (1896-1970) & Elsie Brooks (1898-1957), as well as his daughter Sarah Ann Appleby (1899-1972). Frances Appleby died, aged 77 years, in 1939, Warrington. On census records, her birthplace is given as Aston, Birmingham, Warwickshire, but I don’t know her maiden name or much else about her. I would be interested to know why you think her maiden name was Fanny Kinder?

Uncle Ernie had one daughter Marian (1919-2012) who my grandparents saw quite a lot of. Her widower, Jim Taylor, died last year, aged 92. She never had any children; that’s why I assume uncle Fred Brooks was your grandfather. Elsie Brooks was a spinster who I think lived with my great grandparents, Milly & Richard Thomas Stanway (1898-1967). They had two sons, Eric Thomas Stanway who died as a baby in 1925, and Herbert Stanway (my grandad), born 7th April 1937. He had 4 children and 7 grandchildren.

I hope you find this information helpful. My email address is aaronstanway@btinternet.com

Cheers,

Aaron

 

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Hi Aaron,  don't get excited at the moment.   I'm waiting for my daughter Lisa to pop in prob tomorrow, but I have managed to sort out  this site and my password for starters.   The name we had for Frances (Fanny) Kinder was Broadhurst, but I've not yet found the paper where we had this. I'm going back ten years of not touching it much!  I'm sure it was something to do with Ernest and where they came from.  We had a feeling that Ernest was Thomas's stepson and that Fanny was married prior to marrying Thomas, but her name on two birth carts was definitely Kinder, when we were expecting it to be Broadhurst.  I will be back!! Gill

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Hi Gill,

Many thanks for your reply. I know uncle Ernest went by the name "Brookes" in his adult life. It seems the whole family was "Brooks" until after Thomas (Carter) Brooks died, all four of his children began spelling the name "Brookes" until about the time your uncle Walter Brooks was born in 1935, from what I've found. I know that in the mid-late 1950s, when my Nan worked as a secretary in Crossfields, where both Ernest and Fred Brook(e)s worked, they spelt their names differently and apparently the 4 siblings used to argue about it around that time. Fred seems to have discovered the correct spelling, or at least how it was spelt on any record from his father's lifetime. The following link is about uncle Ernie & auntie Lizzie's grave: https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=168763613&ref=acom . Their daughter is now buried there too.

Prior to the 1891 census, I could find no record of my great great grandmother, Frances. I could see that there was another tree on ancestry.com which featured my great grandmother, Milly Brooks, and said her parents names were Frances Kinder and Thomas Brooks (me having already entered what I knew onto my tree). However, since I only have the free basic membership, I couldn't click onto this tree to find out more. I tried searching for a marriage record in the free BMD index for Frances Kinder to variations of Thomas/Carter & Brooks/Brookes but found nothing. I then tried googling Thomas Brooks, Frances Kinder and your post on this site came up. Is it your grandfather's birth certificate you have obtained, telling you his mother's maiden name was Frances Kinder? Whose is the other birth certificate?

Also, I don't think I mentioned, I suspect Elizabeth Brown's (1834-1911)  parents were George Brown & Mary Carter, married 22/1/1821, Glentworth, Lincolnshire. Elizabeth was baptised in the nearby in Fillingham in 1834. I also know that Thomas Brooks (1836-1913) mother's first name was Jane and that her dates were c.1800-1885. Jane Brooks lived with Thomas & Elizabeth Brooks and their children, listed as "mother" in relation to head, in the 1871 census. I'm also pretty sure I found them in the 1841 & 1851 censuses too, and his father's name was also Thomas Brooks; he died before the 1851 census; he gave his age as 35-40 in 1841. That's as far back as I know.

Regards,

Aaron

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Hi Aaron, you're really challenging the old grey matter! Lol. I belonged to another site years ago and had two Americans helping me when I first started this and they looked up some info for me which was brilliant.  Downside is it means scrabbling through piles of bits of paper and various posts.  I can't even remember what the site was called now.  Also it's a mistake to try and do both sides of your family at once - believe me lol. I had no idea of any info  except my father Les's parents were called Fred and Elizabeth so we got their wedding cert.  This gave us Elizabeth 's  surname (Parker) and both their fathers christian names (Thomas and Samuel) and that they were both dec'd.  Fred and Elizabeth (my grandparents) were married 9th April 1916 in  St. Elphins Church, Warrington .  Also that Thomas had been a stoker and Samuel a labourer.  I did send you an email too in case I had trouble sorting this site out if you haven't found it yet.

The marr cert did not give us Frances name of course, but we thought easy...we have Thomas...wrong lol!  My American friend found Thomas eventually although she read Frances as Terrance - or the transcriber did.  After a lot of digging on the net we decided to get Fred's birth cert and also Milly's too which would ensure we had the names etc correct, and the mother is Frances Brooks formerly Kinder on both.  We're not on Ancestry - how do you get on the free ancestry?  Btw I apologise I think I forgot to list Walter on the list of Brooke's children lol.  I've been on BMD, The Mormon site which off the top of my head I think was called Family search or similar and I was quite lucky with Warrington Genealogy group on Facebook if you belong to fb.

i need to get fully into the notes and papers I have now so we can compare notes again which I will try and do tomorrow.  Some of the info you listed has been very helpful, thx and I know place names for Thomas and Frances coincide with what I have.  It's getting late now so I'll call it a day.  Your last paragraph confused me a little but I'll try it again tomorrow. Cheers Gill

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Hi Aaron. I had some trouble getting on here tonight - if I do again I may need to email you.  I have quite a few bits of info now to work through on fanny Kinder/broadhurst.  I am convinced her name prior to her marriage to Thomas Brooks was Kinder, principally because that is the name which appears as mother on Fred's birth cert and also on Milly's birth cert - I have copies of both.  However Broadhurst figures in her name somewhere - either she was married to "Mr Kinder" and her maiden name was Broadhurst or for some other reason which I am not seeing yet.  Looking back both of her names show as born in Aston and her dates are reasonably correct.  I have parents for Broadhurst  if we can tie it together.

i had a giggle when you wrote about the four siblings arguing about the spelling of Brooke's (which has always been the way my family have spelt it).  Incidentally my father Les worked at Crossfields prior to WW2 and then all his life, although the last few years not in Warrington.  I was only aware that he had a brother Fred - who lived in the same road as us - although there was no real contact.  He had two children Joan and David (David also worked at  Crossfields).   We were visited once by Arthur but I didn't know who he was at the time.   

I am quite interested in Frances' son Ernest as I think he may be the key to her name/s.  If he was from a previous marriage it would possibly answer the puzzle.  I know he's shown as Brooks in the census but he was four years older than Fred and if we can find him anywhere as Ernest Kinder or Broadhurst it would help a lot.  Night for now I'll leave those thoughts with you. Gill

 

Edited by competagill
Forgot something
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Hi Aaron  sorry for sending you lots of bits and pieces.  I looked at some posts I'd saved from the Warrington group on fb and it jogged my memory that one of the helpers there thought Frances's name previously was Gisborne.  I believe we virtually discounted this but I thought you may want to have a look.  Talking of looking I hope you don't mind me asking but do you have a photo of Fred and Elizabeth you could either let me have, or scan and email it to me.  I have nothing of my grandparents so would love one.  Alternatively a pic of any of the older Brooks emailed would be fantastic.  Thx just in case Gill

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