New Driving Test ?

[observer]

How does an ability to use a Sat Nav ; qualify you as a competent and safe driver ?

[Evil Sid]

It does if you know when to ignore it.

 

[Bazj]

3 hours ago, observer said:

How does an ability to use a Sat Nav ; qualify you as a competent and safe driver ?

I think it is more about being able to use technology to aid driving and to use it safely. This have changed since you took your test in the Model T Obs

[observer]

But if you don't buy it or don't use it, it's irrelevant.  Perhaps, using common sense and, driving and parking the vehicle "safely" would keep us all safe ?    

[asperity]

Being able to use a Satnav doesn't qualify you to be a competent and safe driver. It is in addition to all the other parts of the test, not instead of them! You may as well ask if being able to reverse into a parking space qualifies you on its own. And as it is becoming a standard fixture in modern cars, driving instruction needs to move with the times.

[Bazj]

4 hours ago, observer said:

But if you don't buy it or don't use it, it's irrelevant.  Perhaps, using common sense and, driving and parking the vehicle "safely" would keep us all safe ?    

But that is already part of the test. As asp has said, this is in addition to the current requirements. The majority of the drivers on the roads today use sat nav, just because you may prefer to use a map, that's up to you but if you had to retake your test for whatever reason, you would need to know

[observer]

... and that's the point; if your not going to use gadgets, why be tested on them ? Believe they've scrapped the three point turn, which had some sense to it.

[Dizzy]

If I was re-tested while driving and using a sat nav they would fail me.... I've only ever used ours a few times and all it seemed to say was 'turn around...'  or words to that effect...after I misjudged how far x number of yards and turned the wrong way or up the wrong street.  They should have a tape measure fitted lol.

I think the idea of having to show you can actually follow sat nav instructions without being distracted as part of your test is a good one.  Most youngsters I know all use them and sat nav was the first thing they bought after passing their tests simply so they could navigate to and from their destinations.  Most newer cars are fitted with sat nav too as standard so surely it's better that new drivers, or any drivers for that matter) know how to use them safely.

As for the other new additions to the test such as being able to drive into a parking space, reverse out of a parking space and parallel park well yes you should be able to do that too especially these days where parking can be a nightmare.  After all if you can't control a car at low speeds simply to park then blimey should you really be allowed to drive at speed ??? 

[Bazj]

2 hours ago, observer said:

... and that's the point; if your not going to use gadgets, why be tested on them ? Believe they've scrapped the three point turn, which had some sense to it.

That's a bit of a daft statement.... I was tested in a manual car in the 1980's but I drive an auto. The idea is to make sure you CAN use them and use them safely and not cause any issues while doing so. They are also planning to introduce parking in a space and being able to operate some of the cars electrics while in control of the vehicle too. Things such as wipers, heated rear windscreen etc.

 

All good and valid things that everyone should know how to use before taking a vehicle out. It is all about keeping up with changing technologies

[Davy51]

I have only used a sat nav occasionally but if they can help to guide people to their destination without snarling up traffic then they are a good idea. The worst part of any journey is finding yourself in a strange town or city & trying  to find an address when it isn't easy to park & ask a local because of traffic restrictions. The number of times i have found myself in a strange town with the steering wheel in one hand & an A to Z in the other, i think a sat nav may be safer & is ,therefore, a valuable asset to modern driving.

[observer]

10 hours ago, Bazj said:

That's a bit of a daft statement.... I was tested in a manual car in the 1980's but I drive an auto. The idea is to make sure you CAN use them and use them safely and not cause any issues while doing so. They are also planning to introduce parking in a space and being able to operate some of the cars electrics while in control of the vehicle too. Things such as wipers, heated rear windscreen etc.

 

All good and valid things that everyone should know how to use before taking a vehicle out. It is all about keeping up with changing technologies

So on the basis of that argument;  tests would be required in every type of vehicle (manual/automatics), large/small etc etc. Using every gadget currently in vogue. Perhaps they could include using a mobile phone, while they're at it?  

[asperity]

You're clutching at straws now Obs. Your original argument was that because YOU don't use a Satnav, it shouldn't be included in tests for new drivers. Sounds a bit self-centred to be fair.

[Bazj]

4 hours ago, observer said:

So on the basis of that argument;  tests would be required in every type of vehicle (manual/automatics), large/small etc etc. Using every gadget currently in vogue. Perhaps they could include using a mobile phone, while they're at it?  

Not at all.... they alter the driving test as and when it requires change. Over the years, we've had pelican crossings, hazard lights, motorways etc. all required changes to allow new drivers to use them safely. They didn't have to re-test every other driver when they built motorways for example. I have no doubt you miss the old starting handle on your first car Obs, but I think those were dropped from the test some years ago

[Togger1]

He has never been the same since they got rid of the man with the flag haha

[observer]

Using a sat-nav or any other gadget, doesn't make for safer driving; they are all distractions to safe driving, as they deflect concentration; just as a mobile phone (as commonly used) does; so perhaps they could include mobiles while they're at it. The parallel parking, whilst usefull for some no doubt; but as some may have to park a mini as opposed to an SUV, perhaps it's a bit hit and miss. IF, they really want to get serious about road safety, they'd be requiring full medicals, both physical and mental, to ensure folk are fit to drive. The last time I read any stats on this, they estimate at least 20% of all drivers would fail an eye sight test; not to mention those with dementia, who tend to drive down the wrong side of M/Ways or onto pavements, killing pedestrians. So perhaps the gadget geeks could get real.    

[Dizzy]

1 hour ago, observer said:

Using a sat-nav or any other gadget, doesn't make for safer driving; they are all distractions to safe driving, as they deflect concentration; just as a mobile phone (as commonly used) does; so perhaps they could include mobiles while they're at it.

I think it more to prove that you CAN use a sat nav without being distracted from your actual driving and what's going on on the roads around you Obs.
Sat navs give voice direction so I guess you could say they are similar to someone just talking in your car and directing you from a map on their lap. Saying that sat navs do have a visible screen that shows you the route and turnings too so you would/could be taking your eyes off the road too. They say a split second can be all it takes.....eek. Perhaps that's what people are tested for ie NOT using visual instructions but being able to follow the verbal instruction...I have no idea....I think I''m rambling again Your reference to mobile phone use is irrelevant as it is ILLEGAL to use those whilst driving as you well know.

 

1 hour ago, observer said:

The parallel parking, whilst usefull for some no doubt; but as some may have to park a mini as opposed to an SUV, perhaps it's a bit hit and miss.

Why does the size of vehicle make any diference to parallel parking? I can parallel park a teeny little car just as easily as I can parallel park our 2.5 ton big SUV (well I call it a 4x4 but same thing I guess). The only difference between parking the different sizes is that you have to make sure the space is big enough to fit it.   For example our biggie wont fit in a space only 6 foot long and even the best driver on earth wouldn't be able to parallel park it into that.

Saying all that forward driving into and reversing out of a parking space or vice versa is way easier in a teeny car than a whopper though...but hey I can still do it in either
Gawd I'm good aren't I but that's the good thing about living where I do ha ha.

 

1 hour ago, observer said:

If they really want to get serious about road safety, they'd be requiring full medicals, both physical and mental, to ensure folk are fit to drive. The last time I read any stats on this, they estimate at least 20% of all drivers would fail an eye sight test; not to mention those with dementia, who tend to drive down the wrong side of M/Ways or onto pavements, killing pedestrians. So perhaps the gadget geeks could get real.    

 

Now that I do agree with. Sadly there are a huge number of people on the roads who have held licences for a great many years who, to be honest, quite simply shouldn't be driving now. It's a harsh thing to say I know as to many it is their lifeline and they rely on their cars but maybe everyone should have to pass some sort of competence test at regular intervals just to make sure they/we are still able enough to drive and react in a situation not only for their/our own safety but for all other road users safety too

[Dizzy]

PS may I just pat myself on the back for managing to quote your post Obs and then split into sections so as to reply under each bit directly..... blimey what a blummin' faff that was.  It's the first time I've tried since the forum upgrade.....sussed it now though

[Evil Sid]

Quote

Your reference to mobile phone use is irrelevant as it is ILLEGAL to use those whilst driving as you well know.

As a non smart phone user i have been made aware that a lot of the smart phones do have a satnav app. so if you are using your phone as a sat nav is that still illegal?

[Bazj]

4 hours ago, Evil Sid said:

As a non smart phone user i have been made aware that a lot of the smart phones do have a satnav app. so if you are using your phone as a sat nav is that still illegal?

No, as long as the phone is in a cradle, but you must also be careful to use it safely

[Dizzy]

7 hours ago, Evil Sid said:

As a non smart phone user i have been made aware that a lot of the smart phones do have a satnav app. so if you are using your phone as a sat nav is that still illegal?

As Baz says.....and you are NOT allowed to touch it or the screen when driving or even when parked with your engine running.

Just a thought though....if you are parked with your engine running are you allowed to touch/set a sat nav ?

[observer]

The problem is, some folk are so hooked on these things, they just can't resist fiddling with them, and that includes whilst driving. So it's down to thick drivers at the end of the day, those that can't push a trolley round a S/market without crashing into someone.   

[Bazj]

Driving is statistically more safe these days when it comes to fatal crashes. In 1970, there were about 8,000 deaths a year. Now there are around 2,000 and the number of cars is massively more than in the 1970's....

[observer]

Perhaps those 20mph zones did the job after all ?!   

[Evil Sid]

Nah just traffic management that causes large volumes of traffic thus slowing traffic down and reducing fatalities. (wonder if that is the thinking behind bridge foot)

[asperity]

There was thinking behind Bridge Foot?