Brexit - we are all doomed!!!

[Davy51]

I worked for a big company that would gladly pay up to six months sick pay for any sick person on their payroll .That too was abused by the  usual suspects with the result that ,after a while ,restrictions had to be placed on the sick scheme.

After several take overs the company finished up making mass redundancies over a couple of years & recruited via EU employment agencies EU staff on zero hours contracts.

 

"Never look a gift horse in the mouth" is a very wise saying.

[asperity]

The shipping company I worked for up until recently were well known to be generous with sick leave/pay, especially for long standing employees. However it became obvious a few years ago that certain people  (who happened to come from Poland and Romania) had developed a habit of going sick around the end of the year, which caused manning difficulties etc, with the result that the company tightened up the rules considerably.

[Bill]

Well I've certainly not noticed any negative effects as a result of the decision to leave other than the exchange rate for my overseas holidays. Business is good and I'm thinking I'll need more staff shortly all of which btw receive excellent working conditions and almost the same wage as myself. I was even thinking of replacing my ageing 10 year old Italian car with a British one, well we have to think about backing Britain again don't we lol. Those that have got rich in the past by employing cheap overseas labour can't be sleeping well these nights.

 

It's all about being positive and those who can't accept a democratic decision and constantly harp on about it can just go and cry in the corner I've no time for them.

 

Bill

[Gary]

Well a month on from my original post and still no clearer picture on how or if Brexit will be delivered!!

[Gary]

Well I've certainly not noticed any negative effects as a result of the decision to leave other than the exchange rate for my overseas holidays. Business is good and I'm thinking I'll need more staff shortly all of which btw receive excellent working conditions and almost the same wage as myself. I was even thinking of replacing my ageing 10 year old Italian car with a British one, well we have to think about backing Britain again don't we lol. Those that have got rich in the past by employing cheap overseas labour can't be sleeping well these nights.

 

It's all about being positive and those who can't accept a democratic decision and constantly harp on about it can just go and cry in the corner I've no time for them.

 

Bill

There will be plenty crying IF it does happen - and that is still a big IF

[asperity]

Patience is a virtue Gary. (Seldom found in a man and never in a woman :lol: )

[Dizzy]

Patience is a virtue Gary. (Seldom found in a man and never in a woman :lol: )

Tut tut Asp I might have to put you in the naughty boys corner for that comment

[Dizzy]

There will be plenty crying IF it does happen - and that is still a big IF

Crying from who and why Gary? How can you be so sure that an exit will all end in tears until it actually happens?  Talk about being doom and gloom all the time

 

If we do leave and it turns out to have been the wrong decision after all will you really cry yourself to sleep at night?

 

I certainly wont as there are far worse things that can happen in life than us leaving the EU.  Gawd part of me wishes they would just pull the plug right now so we can all just get on with it...whatever 'it' is.

 

 

[Evil Sid]

And here's me thinking patience was a Gilbert and Sullivan opera.

 

Dizz a bit of tomfoolery for you. "there is no such thing as a wrong decision,ill advised ,yes, foolhardy,possibly, but never wrong. ask any politician.

[asperity]

Gawd part of me wishes they would just pull the plug right now so we can all just get on with it...whatever 'it' is.

 

 

And in that one sentence you prove my point Dizzy :lol:

[Davy51]

Manuel from Barcelona will still welcome your tourist £ Gary. They need us more than we need them.

[observer]

Just in case folk have forgotten: we're STILL in the EU, and likely to be for at least the next 2 years. Any up and downs are merely the result of speculation and nothing to do with any tangible change. However, despite the cracks appearing in EU States (Merkel now wasted politically); the Brussels Mandarins continue to push ahead with their dream of a United States of Europe; so clearly they haven't learnt a thing from Brexit, and will continue, in their Ivory Tower, to alienate the people of Europe.

[Davy51]

I think the UK should just repeal the European Communities Act & get us out tout de suite as the say in Paree.

[observer]

I wouldn't rely or trust a pro-EU Parliament with that one Dave; we'll have to wait till the next General Election to clear out the stables.

[Dizzy]

Gawd part of me wishes they would just pull the plug right now so we can all just get on with it...whatever 'it' is.

 

And in that one sentence you prove my point Dizzy :lol:

 

:lol: ok fair point there Asp

[Steve Parish]

 

In an ideal world.... but see how employers complain (and exaggerate how many jobs will be lost by increasing minimum wage).

 

I warm to the idea that every employee should be paid the living wage (the proper one, not Osborne's version) - and if the employers can't afford it, the employer should be the one to claim benefit (i.e. show the accounts, show the business is on the margin, and check for directors paying themselves too much).

 

 

Here we go again with the leftys blaming the employers again.

 

I can tell you from 19 years of running my own business Steve that many employees DO take the p**s when it comes to shirking. When we set up our company, we set it up to be a company we would like to work for ourselves. Brand new vans, all workwear provided, all tools provided, when working out of town, we paid for hotels, food and a couple of drinks for the lads. We paid full pay if lads were off sick, we gave them fuel cards and a float so they never had to be out of pocket waiting for expenses to be paid back.... with a few exceptions, all of our employees came from Warrington; from Bewsey, Orford and Dallam. Our offices were in Bewsey, we contributed locally, we contract hired our vans from a Warrington company. We bought our uniforms from VC on Lovely Lane, any supplier we could use from Warrington we did.... we couldn't do any more for the local economy and local businesses....

 

and how were we repaid? lads calling in (supposedly) sick on a Friday and Monday after nights in the cheap beer pubs in town sanctioned by your councils lax licensing laws. We gave the warnings of taking the mickey but no one listened. We were losing an average of a whole month for two men per month in sickness claims; because they knew they wouldn't lose any money and end up on SSP. So in the end we stopped the paid sickness.... and guess what, sickness levels suddenly dropped to a few days a month across the whole workforce!!

 

Then you have business rates, fuel charges and heaven help you if you happened to be a few days late paying your tax/NI or VAT payments... HMRC are down on the small businesses like a ton of bricks. We were late (by one day each time) in filing our VAT returns and paying the VAT we owed; 10% surcharge was instantly applied and we had to pay it there and then. Big businesses in the town have probably paid less over the 19 years than we have. Every quarter for 19 years we have paid VAT, never had a refund, never had a tax refund.

 

There are all sorts of incentives for businesses to employ people, but at the end of the day, sometimes it's just too costly to employ people... the average salary for me and my business partner is less than £25k a year and we have had one bonus of £5k each about 10 years ago, but we have had companies go bust on a Friday owing us in excess of £40k and then they open up again on Monday morning and we get nothing, we don't even get the option to give them a good kicking... My car is 10 years old.... my business partner doesn't even have a car

 

So next time, when you start blaming bosses for exploiting the poor downtrodden worker and applying your lefty principles of how bosses use their workforce like slaves, it may benefit you to actually speak to local small businesses for once

 

I'm baffled, Baz, baffled. There are employers, and there are employers. There's Sir Philip Green, and there's you. In a business where margins are low, and directors are not taking salaries many times the average pay in their company, what would actually be wrong with paying the "living wage" if the difference between that and what the business could sustain could be claimed back (either in reduced tax or rates)?

[Bill]

I've been saying that for years but I've never seen anything that would actually help me to top up someones earnings to a level sufficient to make them want to get off their backside and work. The benefit system is good enough for some people to get by on, especially if kids are involved so even the living wage might not attract this sort of person when everything's taken into account. Not many young people would go and work their tail off for just a bit more than they get for staying at home watching telly with their mates.

 

There is work out there but it's only attractive to the immigrants who in their own country earn a fraction of what they can earn here and despite all that gets said about them contribution to the economy, they cant be paying much tax on such low wages and certainly not enough to meet the benefits of the Brit that doesn't want do the job.

 

Wave a magic wand and implement a system that replaces immigrant workers with all our unemployed and see what happens to the price of a cabbage. Or try getting your car washed by four British blokes for a fiver! Bottom line is that low paid foreign labour isn't that far removed from the sort of slavery that most modern societies evolved from and by benefiting from the resulting lower prices, we're all a little bit guilty.

 

Complicated.... Enough waffle tea time!

 

Bill

[observer]

Unfortunately Bill, that's the nature of the beast.  Capitalism forever moves towards cheaper labour markets to reduce costs and maximise profits, plus provide cheaper prices for customers; hence the loss of British industry to the Far East.  Paying employers to employ staff, through the minimum wage; seems better than paying dole; but as you say, doesn't appear to get some out of bed. Perhaps time for three offers of a job, then the dole ceases?  Mind you, we'd still be paying for the kids ! 

[Davy51]

It is enlightening to  see the truculence billowing forth from our Eurocratic friends since the decision of the referendum. It is eye opening to see that we have been in bed with these gutter snipes for the last 40 years & because of the country's decision to move away from the EU we are now exposed to all this nastiness & they are exposed as nothing but a gang of back stabbers.At least when these people wore uniforms we knew their intentions.

 

The real tragedy ,of course, is that various UK governments over the 40 years have used Europe as a tool with which to destroy unions, sell off the family silver & take much of our trade to European countries & companies at the expense of our own workforce & infrastructure. Maybe we can eventually get back to more world trade that will demand redevelopment of our neglected deep water ports & produce a healthy rivalry with Europort & Hamburg. We have spent 40 years with an economy that has been inwardly focussed on Europe & now we have the chance to once more become global traders in our own right.

[asperity]

While I agree with you on a lot of this Davy, I do have to take issue with you about our ports being neglected. See this example - the new deep water container terminal on the Thames:

 

http://www.londongateway.com/

 

The container terminals in Felixstowe can take the largest container ships in the world. The Port of Liverpool is improving its container handling facilities, Southampton and the Humber are constantly improving their facilities. Milford Haven has two new natural gas terminals. Ineos in Grangemouth has just opened a new terminal for the importation of gas from the US. Many of the smaller ports are adapting to the changes in worldtrade. Britain has always been a leader in world trade and can only get stronger by not being tied to the stuck in the past EU.

[Davy51]

What i was meaning Asp was that a lot of trade since being in the EU has been has been directed more through the European super ports &  designed to make Britain a satellite region of Brussels.

 

Liverpool  & Southampton are obviously ideal for world & trans Atlantic trade & escaping from the restraints of the EU will benefit the development of these ports for 21st C overseas trade. For all its grants, my opinion is that European membership has actually stagnated parts of the UK which may actually get to flourish again once the Brexit is complete & i believe the money being used for HS2 would be better spent on post Brexit projects.

[observer]

"Grants" ?  OUR money being recycled back, less the cost of the Brussels gravy train. Back in 77, some areas of the UK (like Liverpool) would have qualified for these "grants"; but as poorer and poorer countries came in with their begging bowls, the "grants" went South, then East.

[Davy51]

Seems to be some good news today over the UK economy & the fact that Nissan have nailed their colours to our mast. They can probably see the benefits of the UK unfettered by EU regulations & with markets further afield in which to sell their cars.

 

I wonder if the impending free trade agreement between non EU Canada & the EU would make it illegal for the EU to punish the UK by denying us free access to their single market? That could be one for the EU courts.

[observer]

I'll reserve judgement on the Nissan "deal", until we know if HMG have had to bribe them to stay, with tax-payer's money. Keep hearing about this so-called "single market", but it doesn't stop S/Korean cars, Chilean wines, or Madagascan prawns reaching our shops (NB we're still in the EU single market). The fact is, that the EU has set itself up as a continental protection racket; but forgets that trade is a two way street. If they want to apply WTO tariffs (10% for cars), so can we; we can have a global trade war, and the EU will find they are in the minority. 500million customers are a lot less than the 6 and a half billion elsewhere.

[Davy51]

While I agree with you on a lot of this Davy, I do have to take issue with you about our ports being neglected. See this example - the new deep water container terminal on the Thames:

 

http://www.londongateway.com/

 

The container terminals in Felixstowe can take the largest container ships in the world. The Port of Liverpool is improving its container handling facilities, Southampton and the Humber are constantly improving their facilities. Milford Haven has two new natural gas terminals. Ineos in Grangemouth has just opened a new terminal for the importation of gas from the US. Many of the smaller ports are adapting to the changes in worldtrade. Britain has always been a leader in world trade and can only get stronger by not being tied to the stuck in the past EU.

 

 

Lo & behold the new Liverpool deep water container dock has been mentioned on BBC north west news today. Should be ideal for our post Brexit global shipping trade.